Mumsnet Says They Are Trans Friendly; What do you think?

[Nightinghawk]

I’m coming over from Twitter since @/MumsnetTowers has encouraged people to join, promising that they would not ban people for using the word “cis” and also that they think “Campaigning against trans people’s existing human rights and legal protections is transphobic” is “an interesting question and a debate [they’d] welcome seeing on the boards.” When asked if they believe that trans women are women, trans men are men, and nonbinary people are nonbinary, they responded with “We believe adults have a right to say what they think about matters of active public debate.” However, they do say they do not tolerate hate speech, malicious content, sweeping negative generalizations, derogatory or aggressive content on their site.

Given the conflicting messages I’ve seen from them in the past, and the fact that they to this day think campaigns against trans people’s rights could in any way not be transphobic and their hesitance to affirm trans people’s autonomy in our self-description and our gender(s), I’m hesitant to believe that Mumsnet the site is actually trans friendly. I mean this as no disrespect to the mod team or others in position of authority; it is merely my opinion (and lived experiences) that any online forum that doesn’t immediately consider campaigns against trans people’s rights as transphobic tend to have (accidentally or otherwise) cultivated a transphobic customer base on their forums. I say this as a trans person who has been leveled all kinds of harassment in a variety of online forums, where those which had not condemned transphobia had immensely more transphobia in quantity and in vitriol.

All this is to say, I’d like to hear your (Mumsnet’s users’) opinions on the matter. Is Mumsnet really a trans friendly space? Do you believe that advocating against trans people’s existing rights is transphobic or anti-trans? Do you think these existing rights for trans people are “interesting” enough for “debate”? Do you think the term cis should be censored? Am I safe asking for/providing advice here as a trans person? Why? Why not?

For reference: I am nonbinary trans and use xe/xem pronouns. I understand they can be difficult to use or to remember to be used for some people. If you don’t want to use my pronouns, then please use my username: Nightinghawk, or NH as shorthand.

Ive said this before, but gender reminds me strongly of religious faith.

I have friends who are very religious. They know God exists. That isnt up for debate, they just know. They can feel Him, and his presence in their lives.

I think theyre batshit.
They think Im batshit for questioning it.

Gender seems to be very similar. To some its an absolute certainty, to others it just doesnt exist.

I' am here to have a discussion in I like to get different points of view, (eg why do trans men want to get pregnant when it's the most womanly thing you can do) I'm genuinely interested.
Why don't you ask them? How are we supposed to know the answer to that?

@PheasantPlucker1 It seems exactly the same to me too. Plus the need to persecute/punish non-believers.

Apologies, I dont know if we are allowed to laugh on these threads but
In a jar by the door?
That made me chuckle out loud.

@newstart1337

Apologies, I dont know if we are allowed to laugh on these threads but In a jar by the door? That made me chuckle out loud.

Yes. Otherwise we'd all go completely bonkers!

Why don't you ask them? How are we supposed to know the answer to that

Did I say you, lol?
Also, who's "we?"
Thought we were all individuals on here with own thoughts and not some collective borg?
Funny how the question has been asked several times by "GC" posters but the minute anyone else does it's "how are we supposed to know" or "ask them?!"

Transmen

Poor ol Mockolate, you seem very disgruntled and conflicted. What is it you want?

Mockokate I linked to sn article by a transman explaining how they felt about pregnancy.

I think you missed it talking about your jam jar of gender?

They want someone, not me though, to tell them why transmen want to get pregnant.

newstart1337 I reckon you're allowed a chuckle in the middle of the night

jam jar of gender

😂😂😂

'jam jar of gender' - now that's chuckle worthy! 😂

@JaneJeffer

They want someone, not me though, to tell them why transmen want to get pregnant.

Well I could say why but I'm not going to because it's pointless.

I haven't said anything about a jam jar of gender, so not sure what you're on about there.
Will take a look at the article you say you've posted though.

@Impatiens

Poor ol Mockolate, you seem very disgruntled and conflicted. What is it you want?

Not got an actual clue what you're on about now, I'm neither disgruntled or conflicted.

OP - please could you link to Mumsnet "promising that they would not ban people for using the word “cis”"?

This would seem to be at odds with:

"Mumsnet moderation principles for discussions around gender identity and sex"

"We’ll be introducing a three strikes system whereby users deleted more than three times in any rolling six week period will have their membership automatically suspended and we’ll then take a view as to whether they will have membership reinstated."

and

"many feminists are affronted by the term ‘cis’ and ‘terf’, so using these terms will make civil debate less likely. As we’ve said, context is everything – but it’s likely that going forward our moderation team will delete these expressions."

www.mumsnet.com/info/trans-rights-moderation-policy

Never mind - just found it from a link in another thread:

twitter.com/MumsnetTowers/status/1367080005193318401

"We don't ban people for saying 'cis' (and agree it's useful for clarity sometimes) but some women find it marginalising and demeaning if it doesn't describe how they feel about their own gender identity, so we ask people to use it cautiously. Cis women know a bit about..."

Definitely seems to be at odds with the "Moderation Principles".

pheasant I too agree. Pretty strongly.

Re ‘a female sense of self’ which is separate from the biological reality of the body...

Could it be that this sense of self/identity- which is hard to describe- is a feeling (or a collection of feelings) which has been developed over a lifetime of being female and having uniquely female experiences; experiences which might include being subjected to discrimination, sexism and misogyny? If so, then it is not separate to the body at all but is a direct result of being ‘in’ that body.

@womanity

Interesting pothole Sex: Female Gender: Feminist

Yesss! Thank you. I love this.

A lot if what I think of in myself as the feminine part of me is my willingness to put the needs of the rest of my family before my own. It has nothing to do with a desire to look pretty, though a desire to look pleasing to my husband is something I would put down to my female socialisation.
I find this so, so at odds with the version of femininity that seems to be sought by the transwomen on the “escape” threads. Whilst they clearly have a sense of their own femininity, it is not one I recognise at all, in fact, it is completely perpendicular to my own intuition of gender. When people ask, what does it feel like to be a woman, and I see a selfish person spending their family’s assets on their personal goals, I cannot feel that I share any internal sense of gender with that person.

I'd find it debasing to have to add my prounouns to the bottom of emails.

If I were a Dr, medical or phd, that would highlight my sex.

Sexism still exists.

It's almost like having to announce my race.

Those things are important at specific times but most of the time not, and shouldn't HAVE to be in order to be treated fairly and with respect.

Also, in emails and to one's face you don't use pronouns.

Just introduce yourself as F. Smith or choose a unisex name or nickname.

Also, calling someone cis because they're not 'trans' assumes they fully adhere to stereotypes. We are all basically non binary in terms of gender personalities. Particularly those of us who are gen x or earlier as we knew full well we could wear and do what the hell we wanted without labels and pigeon holing.

I don't fit into a box, ta.

Or a jam jar.

No is a full sentence. As you'll see a lot on the relationship board.