Mumsnet Says They Are Trans Friendly; What do you think?

[Nightinghawk]

I’m coming over from Twitter since @/MumsnetTowers has encouraged people to join, promising that they would not ban people for using the word “cis” and also that they think “Campaigning against trans people’s existing human rights and legal protections is transphobic” is “an interesting question and a debate [they’d] welcome seeing on the boards.” When asked if they believe that trans women are women, trans men are men, and nonbinary people are nonbinary, they responded with “We believe adults have a right to say what they think about matters of active public debate.” However, they do say they do not tolerate hate speech, malicious content, sweeping negative generalizations, derogatory or aggressive content on their site.

Given the conflicting messages I’ve seen from them in the past, and the fact that they to this day think campaigns against trans people’s rights could in any way not be transphobic and their hesitance to affirm trans people’s autonomy in our self-description and our gender(s), I’m hesitant to believe that Mumsnet the site is actually trans friendly. I mean this as no disrespect to the mod team or others in position of authority; it is merely my opinion (and lived experiences) that any online forum that doesn’t immediately consider campaigns against trans people’s rights as transphobic tend to have (accidentally or otherwise) cultivated a transphobic customer base on their forums. I say this as a trans person who has been leveled all kinds of harassment in a variety of online forums, where those which had not condemned transphobia had immensely more transphobia in quantity and in vitriol.

All this is to say, I’d like to hear your (Mumsnet’s users’) opinions on the matter. Is Mumsnet really a trans friendly space? Do you believe that advocating against trans people’s existing rights is transphobic or anti-trans? Do you think these existing rights for trans people are “interesting” enough for “debate”? Do you think the term cis should be censored? Am I safe asking for/providing advice here as a trans person? Why? Why not?

For reference: I am nonbinary trans and use xe/xem pronouns. I understand they can be difficult to use or to remember to be used for some people. If you don’t want to use my pronouns, then please use my username: Nightinghawk, or NH as shorthand.

This topic cannot be seen without examining the implications in my opinion for young people. Live and let live is fine until it impacts on the children and young people who due to this growing trend make decisions that are hard either psychologically or physically to change. My concern is that we are allowing a generation to make decisions at a time when they are still working out life and growing up

Things I cant understand:

How can anyone know what being a person of the opposite sex 'feels' like!

If women feel they are men and 'change' gender, why do they still have PIV sex and attempt to get pregnant?

If men feel they are women and 'change' gender, why do they still have PIV sex and try to impregnate other women?

If biological women 'identify' as cis gender, does that mean that biological men can identity as cis gender?

Is their any examples in the animal kingdom of animals being 'trans'?

In 2,000,000 million years of human evolution why has the whole 'trans' thing only exploded in the past 5 years? Is it connected to social media?

Things I cant understand:

How can anyone know what being a person of the opposite sex 'feels' like!

I don't know what it feels like to be a person of the opposite sex, what I do know is that I have a strong female sense of self along and separate to my body.
(Fully aware people are going to go now but meh)
So it stands to reason that it could happen in trans people too.

If women feel they are men and 'change' gender, why do they still have PIV sex and attempt to get pregnant

Must admit that's one thing I'm not sure on either - as in, if you don't identify as a woman, you're a man, why would you want to do a very female thing?
As in get pregnant and give birth?
Surely that would kick in gender dysphoria and distress?

In 2,000,000 million years of human evolution why has the whole 'trans' thing only exploded in the past 5 years? Is it connected to social media?
The "whole trans thing" as you put it has been around for absolute decades. Not just the past 5 years.
It's only now we have more knowledge about the issues that people are more aware of them.

TheLovleyChebbyMcGee

I think the vast majority of mumsnet is transphobic. They resist using peoples preferred pronouns, deadname people, and assume that trans people want access to single sex spaces to rape women

How can they deadname someone when they only have a username?

I personally use preferred pronouns, preferred names, and believe everyone should be treated with dignity and respect.

I have trouble getting worked up about some shared spaces.

I don't like the use of 'cis' though.

And I'm incredibly disappointed in MN . I'm not sure what they said on Twitter, but it kinda sounds like they are charging admission at the Colosseum. They are profiting but I'm not sure who else is here.

Fully aware people are going to go

Perhaps if you were actually able to describe it, ever, people would be less sceptical.

As it is: meh

@AnotherEmma

Regarding those questions, I feel like I may have seen some impromptu surveys on certain trans communities on Reddit (possibly /r/FTMMen?), but I'm not sure of any formal research that has been done regarding preferred gender-neutral terminology.

@PotholeParadies

Thank you, I have held off on making an account here because I didn't want to intrude on a space intended for women. The internet lately feels very toxic and polarizing, so I can understand how you would feel that way.

One thing that helped me was realizing just how many people are going out of their way to be offended over things that don't affect them. I used to get very outraged over posts on Twitter that claimed to speak for the trans community until I realized that the most vocal group of people speaking for trans rights were typically teenagers who had never actually transitioned aside from putting pronouns in their bio and making a Picrew avatar. You cannot reason with people who don't actually have any skin in the game and just want to claim moral high ground. It seems like a game to some of them. I just try to ignore it as much as I can, but sometimes I find it very offensive as someone who has made the effort to physically transition, so I try not to look at Twitter or other communities with similar userbases.

NewStart
Males with a male gender are referred to as cismen, and females with a female gender as ciswomen.

However many people do not like the term, so you should check someone does have a gender and is ok with being called cis before calling them that!

Fully aware people are going to go

Perhaps if you were actually able to describe it, ever, people would be less sceptical

As it is: meh

Have done so, in the past.
Realised it's fruitless/pointless on here.
Is that as far as you got, and stopped as usual, or did you read further to see that I had a question as to how trans men want to give birth and do something that a female biological body can do?
I'd genuinely like to know the answer to that myself

The "whole trans thing" as you put it has been around for absolute decades. Not just the past 5 years

People with severe dysphoria have been around for a long time. Those who had reassignment surgery did not think they were changing sex.

Current trans ideology, where anyone can identify as whatever they feel like without having to even have dysphoria or make any changes, is new. Social contagion certainly plays a massive part in the youth.

I have held off on making an account here because I didn't want to intrude on a space intended for women.

I think most of this board think it's a space for feminism - the rights of females, who need specific rights because of our sex. Most of us are clear that applies regardless of gender identity. What you've written is, I think, entirely congruent with this.

Despite presenting as male, I know I am still female. As a female human being, there are problems that will affect me and other female persons that a trans woman will never face. This is where my identity as a "man" conflicts with reality. I may present as a man, but at the end of the day I am still female and share more in common biologically with any woman than I do with any trans woman. Women's rights usually focuses on women's reproductive issues or issues that affect women due to the biological reality of their sex, so while I may identify as a man, they are obviously quite important to me because of this.

You already know the answer, you just don't like it.

You haven't explained it on any thread I've been on. So maybe you could again? For me? I'd really like to know what this female feeling is.

www.theguardian.com/society/2019/apr/20/the-dad-who-gave-birth-pregnant-trans-freddy-mcconnell

Freddy Mcconnell does talk about that, and learning to accept the difference between biology and gender about half way through.

I actually found the explanation quite hypocritical, Freddy seems to acknowledge the difference when it suits, but not when it doesnt. Nor is anyone else allowed to acknowledge the difference.

Sorry, that link was in response to Mockolate about transmen getting pregnant.

I don't know what it feels like to be a person of the opposite sex, what I do know is that I have a strong female sense of self along and separate to my body.

It's not separate from your body though, is it? Your brain is part of your body, it's not some disembodied entity which is floating around 'feeling female'. And in order for you to have a 'female sense of self' rather than just a sense of self, you would have to know what it would be like to have a non-female sense of self, which would mean that you would have to have experienced a sense of not being female so that you could compare it with your sense of being female. Otherwise it's just your sense of you being you.

I have a strong female sense of self along and separate to my body.
Whereabouts exactly?

In a jar by the door?

In a jar by the door?

Yes.
Yes, in a jar by the door.
That's right.

Mockolate why have you responded to my joke and not the posters asking you direct questions?

Mockolate why have you responded to my joke and not the posters asking you direct questions?

I've already answered that a few posts up.

So you're just browsing then? Ok.

So you're just browsing then? Ok

Just browsing?
No, not sure what you're on about there.

I mean you're not posting to have a discussion, as you've stated that you're not going to explain what you mean by your comments.

I mean you're not posting to have a discussion, as you've stated that you're not going to explain what you mean by your comments

I' am here to have a discussion in I like to get different points of view, (eg why do trans men want to get pregnant when it's the most womanly thing you can do) I'm genuinely interested.
I'm not going to enlarge on what it means to have a female identity/self alongside my female body if that's what you mean. as I know from past experience it is absolutely pointless even trying on here.

When you say 'pointless' I assume you mean you didn't like posters disagreeing with you, rather than that you couldn't get a discussion going?