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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Mumsnet says Trans Rights are Human Rights!

999 replies

ool0n · 03/03/2021 14:39

I always assumed Mumsnet were not the biggest supporters of trans rights, given the stories about them. But this is a good statement on Twitter, "of course trans people exist, and of course trans rights are human rights"
twitter.com/MumsnetTowers/status/1367071394870276099

Also I thought using terms like cisgender or cis were against the rules, this isn't true either -
twitter.com/MumsnetTowers/status/1367080005193318401

So can I get a trans rights are human rights, trans women are women, trans men are men and non binary people are valid!

OP posts:
PurpleHoodie · 03/03/2021 18:43

LGB Alliance has sprung up because women and men believe in biological sex.

Gay Rights are Human Rights.

PurpleHoodie · 03/03/2021 18:43

Rephrased it for you MNHQ.

IsAnybodyListening · 03/03/2021 18:44

I am SO glad the singer Helen Reddy wrote her classic 'I am Woman' 50yrs ago.

I don't think a song titled 'I am a person whose sense of personal identity and gender corresponds with my birth sex' is very catchy title for a song.

ool0n I am not CIS. What I am is as bloody frustrated as Helen was all those years ago. She sang about gender equality and feminism, and here we are half a century later and us women are having to scream over the masculine voices that are now denying a simple biological fact and trying to strip us of this.

CandyLeBonBon · 03/03/2021 18:44

Fun fact about pockets. The reason women's clothing didn't have (and still lack) pockets, is rooted in the fact that they weren't allowed to carry their own money so they didn't need them.

So as as @Alicethruthelookingglass says, if got pockets, you're probably a man

DreamEvenBigger · 03/03/2021 18:45

[quote Alicethruthelookingglass]@DreamEvenBigger
Who knows. Maybe I’m a man, but I don’t realise it 🧐🤷‍♀️

Of course you are. So is the person upthread who looked for their gender identity in their pockets. If you are wearing clothes with pockets you likely are a man.[/quote]
🤦‍♀️

You’re right. No make up. Trousers. Pockets. Plain jumper. Flat comfortable shoes. How can I be a woman?

(Darn those xx chromosomes)

PurpleHoodie · 03/03/2021 18:45

Also:

The Equality Act 2010 acknowledges Sex based Rights - and women and men are asserting these Rights as the dismantling of these Rights are being discovered.

Rephrased that also for you MNHQ.

AsMuchUseAsAMarzipanDildo · 03/03/2021 18:46

Literally physically and mentally torturing trans people to change their gender identity doesn't work, hasn't ever worked.

And force-feeding people with anorexia doesn’t change their mindset. David Kuresh’s followers stayed in their farmhouse in Waco. The strength of belief doesn’t automatically mean that belief is correct.

BarbaraofKent · 03/03/2021 18:46

@loretta81

This board is an echo chamber. Not all women find the term cis offensive, and you can be both a feminist and a supporter of TWAW. (Just not here, it seems Hmm)
The reason this place is a bloody echo chamber is because whenever someone is asked a simple question such as 'what is a woman' or 'what is a female gender identity' they can never answer it and bugger off!
TransRightsRCool · 03/03/2021 18:47

@CandyLeBonBon

Fun fact about pockets. The reason women's clothing didn't have (and still lack) pockets, is rooted in the fact that they weren't allowed to carry their own money so they didn't need them.

So as as @Alicethruthelookingglass says, if got pockets, you're probably a man

Life hack:

Buy men's jeans. Have pockets.

PurpleHoodie · 03/03/2021 18:48

Lesbians are having their activities pushed underground. Not on. They are miffed about it.

Rephrased it for you MNHQ.

MrsMiggins9100 · 03/03/2021 18:48

Great to see Mumsnet standing up for human rights! Of course, why wouldn't they. Transpeople of both sexes are to be treated fairly, with dignity and have human rights. Women also have human rights. One group does not supersede another and women's rights are enshrined in law. They are legally entitled to single sex spaces. Which excludes transwomen. Both have human rights though ;-)

GoodQueenAlysanne · 03/03/2021 18:49

My post got deleted..?

Confused

I didn't say anything transphobic, yes I questioned the ideological narrative that that TWAW. Because it doesn't make sense to me.

How..?

I didn't say anything negative about trans people themselves, who I'm sure are as varied personality wise as everybody else, each with their own views and opinions.

Every single transwoman, was born male. Am I allowed to say that? Or can I just not expand on the definition of male?

borntobequiet · 03/03/2021 18:49

Such stereotypes wouldn’t exist if they couldn’t be referenced back to the sex they’re associated with. So it all comes back to XX/XY anyway.

PolytheneHam · 03/03/2021 18:49

Good.

Ninkanink · 03/03/2021 18:50

In the meantime, we do have rights that work to remove the effects of a millennia of discrimination against women and girl's based on the their sexed bodies.

Yes, and I might add we have protections too. Sex-based. In Law and in society. Because they are necessary in order to remove, as much as possible, the likelihood of actual, physical (‘literal’, if you like) harm, violence, and assault on women and children.

AbsintheFriends · 03/03/2021 18:50

Life hack:

Buy men's jeans. Have pockets.

Also have jeans that do not fit the body type that has wide hips and a smaller waist. Damn biology.

minchinfin · 03/03/2021 18:50

I find cis offensive and triggering and politely request that people don't call me it - thanks

tellmewhentheLangshiplandscoz · 03/03/2021 18:50

That's the one!

NativityDreaming · 03/03/2021 18:51

Well, good on Mumsnet for supporting human rights. Of course trans right are human right, the same way, in the U.K., we all have rights under the law.

I do think this thread wasn’t started in good faith though. It was started to be goady, in the hopes that users would freak out and write something to prove that MN was a hotbed of intolerance. Except it is not, so good luck with that, OP.

Women’s rights are human rights.

Erkrie · 03/03/2021 18:52

Gender identity is not sex. The two are entirely different things and it is not helpful to conflate them.

For the majority of people, they don't have a gender identity, they simply have a biological sex. Which is male or female. And on top of that, they have a personality that likes many different things ranging from the traditionally very feminine to very masculine. But these things are based on historical stereotypes of how men and women behave. The world doesn't look like that now, as people have more opportunity to pursue the things they prefer to do in a modern world less restrained by sex stereotypes. Thus to say one is living as a man or a woman is somewhat problematic. As it doesn't really mean anything anymore.

It doesn't matter how people dress or present. And I don't care how they do. If men want to present as what was once considered more traditionally female and women want to present as what was considered traditionally male then of course there is no issue. It's nothing surprising or particularly new.

What is important though is that gender identity is not conflated with sex. They are not the same thing. And they diminish sex based rights, services and protections.

And what is important to remember, that amongst all these different personalities and presentations, is that a woman is an adult human female. And a man is an adult human male. It is not possible to identify out of the concrete reality of what one is born as.

Instead of attempting to conflate sex and gender, it would be better to celebrate each others diversity and differences, whilst understanding that both sexes have very different needs which are central to their biological reality.

yourhairiswinterfire · 03/03/2021 18:53

Buy men's jeans. Have pockets

Small waist, big thighs and butt. Men's jeans aren't made for female's bodies. Darn biology!

SilverBirchWithout · 03/03/2021 18:53

It doesn't matter what definition I provide, you won't be satisfied. So I'll stick with this one: a woman is an adult human who identifies as a woman.
Born female? You grow into a woman.
Trans woman? Oh look you're a woman.
Nonbinary people sometimes interact with the identity of woman too but I think we'll leave it there for now. But this definition is sort of a catch-all. It's probably not fool-proof though. I'm not exactly infallible.

This argument doesn’t work unless you can define what a woman actually is.
What does ‘oh look you’re a women’ mean? What does ‘identify as a woman’ mean?

merrymouse · 03/03/2021 18:54

But it's just not the world. Maybe if we had that world we wouldn't have trans people... who knows? But we don't have that world right now.

I’m not seeing the link between the undeniable existence of trans people and the desire to remove meaning from words that refer to a separate protected characteristic - sex.

DorotheaDiamond · 03/03/2021 18:55

I just wish OP could explain how trans men are men based on something that can be measured if they are naked and unconscious or dead and decomposed? Something that isn’t clothing or makeup or feelings? Some way that differentiated said bodies from female bodies?

Because all the reasons that we need sex specific rights and sex specific medicine are based on bodies not feelings.

PurpleHoodie · 03/03/2021 18:56

Being a woman matters.

Look at what the Daily Mail has uncovered as pointed out in another FWR thread.

WOMEN underpayed by BILLIONS in their state pensions!

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