Mumsnet says Trans Rights are Human Rights!

[ool0n]

I always assumed Mumsnet were not the biggest supporters of trans rights, given the stories about them. But this is a good statement on Twitter, "of course trans people exist, and of course trans rights are human rights"
twitter.com/MumsnetTowers/status/1367071394870276099

Also I thought using terms like cisgender or cis were against the rules, this isn't true either -
twitter.com/MumsnetTowers/status/1367080005193318401

So can I get a trans rights are human rights, trans women are women, trans men are men and non binary people are valid!

@Liquorishtoffee careful. You'll get a deletion and then accused of posting something awful when you just posted about a biscuit cake

@tellmewhentheLangshiplandscoz

Just want to check my understanding so happy to be created ...I thought that under the Equalities act a person has the same protections for gender identity as the sex they're born with, is that right? You have to have a GRC to be classed as another sex? So unless a transwoman has one they have no other entitlement than a man?

Yes. And even after they get a GRC it could still be a proportional act to deny them access to services of their acquired sex.

So my transman friend can't play in mens rugby as he would be at a considerable physical risk. He plays in a local team that specifially encourages transmen to join.

I did a diversity training course last week and questioned the use of the word cis saying I had only really seen it used in a quite negative way. The trainer said it was a totally valid, from -the- Latin term, so I am now confused about it

Did they indeed.

I'll start calling myself prope in a minute.

Trans women are women, and that doesn't stop you from being women.

If that's true, then "woman" doesn't mean "woman" anymore. But it's not true, because we aren't going to give away our word. The things women have in common with each other that we don't have in common with transwomen are far too significant.

Attempting a blanket ban on all trans people as an entire group without cause or evidence is transphobic. Mmmm! And who has tried that or suggested t, here?

In fact, there has never been a successful use of the exemption in clause 28 because no court has ever found a the exclusion of trans people to be a proportionate means of achieving a legitimate aim.

It's never been legally challenged! But it is being in courts, right now, today! HoL a few days ago! That tangled skein is coming unravelled as we type!

@Sophoclesthefox

I know we’re not doing cake recipes, but I really hope you’ve got enough cake and/or gin to cope with this afternoons shift, Rowanmumsnet!

I'm doing the Fast800 (this is what happens when you help JustineMN do a Zoomchat with Michael Mosley) so NO CAKE AND NO BOOZE, man alive

Tbh this is the real reason we don't want you to post about recipes

@langclegflavoredbananamush

Trans women are women, and that doesn't stop you from being women.

If that's true, then "woman" doesn't mean "woman" anymore. But it's not true, because we aren't going to give away our word. The things women have in common with each other that we don't have in common with transwomen are far too significant.

I mean.... I'm a woman so I guess it's my word too? And I'm very happy to apply it to trans woman.

Please remember, you don't speak for all women.

@BaronessWrongCrowd

To be honest *@Lepetitpiggy* i take the view that if people want to call themselves Cis, fine go ahead. However, those same people should respect the requests of those who don't want to be called cisgender or Cis and acknowledge that fact.

There is no need for Cis, however and personally I cannot stand it.I'm sure that someone did some excellent refutation of the word but I can't think for the life of me where I saw it, other sue I'd send you a link.

Thank you. 😊

On the thought experiment discussed upthread. Most people would be disconcerted and distressed if they magically woke up in a body that was not their own. I cannot imagine, however, that any woman magically waking up in a male body would demand access to female spaces because she didn't feel like a man. Or demand to compete against females in sports. There's the difference.

On cis. If it meant 'person who does not experience dysphoria over their sexed body' I'd have no problem with it. Most transactivists, however, assert that it means 'person whose gender identity corresponds to their sex'. I don't have a gender identity and I've only ever experienced gender as harmful and oppressive, so I'm not cis, and people continuing to claim that I am, after I've said that I reject the term, are being offensive.

I'm a woman. Transwomen are transwomen. It's not bad to be either one of these things, but they aren't the same.

Ok so I'm going to go with this gender identity fun .... so, how do I work out what I am? Is there a quiz to do, like I used to do in My Guy magazine to work out what kind of girlfriend I'd be?

@ool0n

You are a man yes?

Do you believe that women are entitled to single sex prisons, sports, refuges, hospital wards?

Yes or no?

May I juat mention that there are people who literally believe that Australia doesn't exist? The people living there cope.

I neither believe in souls, original sin or that other people on the internet have the inner essences of dragons, gryphons or foxes (google otherkin if you're scratching your head). The people who do believe in these things don't melt in the face of my lack of faith.

Everything in my post is verifiably true and published on Legislation.gov.uk: But only if you read an excerpt and not the document as a whole. As you must know!

I'd encourage anyone who thinks either of us is wrong to read the source document from top to bottom!

@langclegflavoredbananamush

Trans women are women, and that doesn't stop you from being women.

If that's true, then "woman" doesn't mean "woman" anymore. But it's not true, because we aren't going to give away our word. The things women have in common with each other that we don't have in common with transwomen are far too significant.

Careful, your hate is showing.

Anyway, there's enough of the word woman around for cis women and for trans women for you to share. I'm sure you can cope.

Barbara that tweet

Meanwhile....real people exist out in the high streets.

In prisons. In jobs. On furlough. Unemployed.

And when they find out what has been happening and will soon come to them...

I’m doing the Fast800 (this is what happens when you help JustineMN do a Zoomchat with Michael Mosley) so NO CAKE AND NO BOOZE, man alive

Blimey, brave woman, have some calorie free flowers instead

I am still trying to figure this out.

We have two sexes, man and woman. You need one of each to make a baby.

Then we have an infinite (?) number of genders ( I am still waiting to hear what difference it is between gender and personality).

And within this infinite number of genders, some are gender women? Or only one of the infinite number of genders?

And the biological “woman” has nothing to do with the “gender woman”? Unless the person in question says so?

But if the “gender woman” could be either biological sex, how do we know which of all this infinite genders are also gender women? Is it because they say so?

And what is a gender woman if it has nothing to do with a biological woman?

I am feeling so thick right now....

Careful, your hate is showing.

Come on then, what is a woman (without using the word 'woman' in your definition as that is, clearly, ridiculous).

It really is a very simple question!

Attempting a blanket ban on all trans people as an entire group without cause or evidence is transphobic.

Yes, that would be transphobic, and I can't think of a reason why anyone would. However, there are sometimes reasons to segregate by sex. For instance there is a whole range of services and provisions relating to specific cancers that are not relevant to both sexes.

I just want clear language to talk about sex, regardless of identity.

“I did a diversity training course last week and questioned the use of the word cis saying I had only really seen it used in a quite negative way. The trainer said it was a totally valid, from -the- Latin term, so I am now confused about it”

This argument - that “Cis” is from the Latin, hence is fine and cannot be objected to, is superlatively stupid - I mean, do they not know how languages work?

I could probably put together a latin version of “idiotic tw*tface who looks like a donkey’s bum”, but I don’t see how that would legitimise its general use in society.

People who are not transgender are men or women. "Cis" is not needed.

@BarbaraofKent

Careful, your hate is showing.

Come on then, what is a woman (without using the word 'woman' in your definition as that is, clearly, ridiculous).

It really is a very simple question!

Whoever identifies as one, or grew into one from birth. Also the shadows under my fridge.