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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

MOJ Prison Policy JR TODAY

999 replies

ChazsBrilliantAttitude · 02/03/2021 10:10

Just seen on Twitter.

Will post links

OP posts:
Thread gallery
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TheRabbitOfCaerbannog · 03/03/2021 22:19

[quote KeepPrisonsSingleSex]Thanks for so much coverage on this today, both here an on AIBU.
I will post my summary of today's proceedings tomorrow - my brain is just fried....

In the meantime here are details of a letter we wrote that will be published in tomorrow's Telegraph:

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/03/03/trans-prisoners-needs-cannot-come-cost-safety-female-inmates/[/quote]
Thank you 🙏

ChazsBrilliantAttitude · 03/03/2021 22:34

KPSS
What you have done by bring this case forward is amazing. It has highlighted so many issues with the implementation of the EA and the interaction with the GRA.

OP posts:
BoomBoomsCousin · 03/03/2021 22:45

Does anyone know if the 7 (acknowledged) sexual assaults on women prisoners by transwomen in women’s prisons will include sexual assaults by transwomen with a GRC, or have all assaults by transwomen with a GRC been recorded as being perpetrated by women?

EventuallyDeleted · 03/03/2021 22:46

Thank you from me too. I don't post much, but I read lots and have been doing a bit of gardening.

ColourMagic · 03/03/2021 22:47

Thank you so much KPSS. Such a fantastic effort by every one who could help. PS, could someone please archive the Telegraph letter as not everyone can access it otherwise. Thanks. x

ColourMagic · 03/03/2021 22:51

And of course thank you to the magnificent FPFW!

OvaHere · 03/03/2021 23:07

@ColourMagic

Thank you so much KPSS. Such a fantastic effort by every one who could help. PS, could someone please archive the Telegraph letter as not everyone can access it otherwise. Thanks. x
archive.is/Kiepq
ColourMagic · 03/03/2021 23:15

Thanks OvaHere x

Binglebong · 03/03/2021 23:54

I wish all articles about transgender issues started with a glossary of terms. There are still people who think that transwomen (single word please press!) mean a female (XX for clarity) who identifies as male. It makes a huge difference to how you see things if you think feminists are trying to force females in to the male estate (which would be awful). Once you realise transwomen are males who want to be housed with females things look rather different.

Incidently I do post on other FWR threads - it's just this one where I feel way over my head.

Notman · 04/03/2021 00:04

Thank you to all involved with the case and getting it reported. It becomes more unbelievable the more we hear about what the MOJ doesn’t know about its own inmates. It’s a pity that these cases have to be brought before the whole ridiculous nonsense will come crashing Let’s hope it is soon before any more women are hurt to appease some people’s feelings

BitOfFun · 04/03/2021 01:16

From that Telegraph article, the MoJ “ ...also claim that the prison and police investigated the allegations made by FDJ and no corroborative evidence was found to bring a charge.”

How fucking disgusting. I want to salute this woman’s bravery in persisting in the face of this appalling abuse of state power.

Redshoeblueshoe · 04/03/2021 01:33

BoomBooms I don't know but I hope we find out

Stealhsquirrelnutkin · 04/03/2021 02:26

Does anyone know if the 7 (acknowledged) sexual assaults on women prisoners by transwomen in women’s prisons will include sexual assaults by transwomen with a GRC, or have all assaults by transwomen with a GRC been recorded as being perpetrated by women?

Judging by what we've seen so far, and how the police record crimes committed by males with a feminine identity, I think we can be pretty sure that assaults committed by transwomen with a GRC are being recorded as woman on woman crime. After all, they've just told us they can't possibly guess who is a transwoman - if they have a GRC but choose not to mention it!

I'm now wondering if the assault on FDJ is included in the "negligible" number of recorded sexual assaults committed by transwomen. Or if it didn't make the statistics at all, along with all the other women who couldn't muster sufficient proof to convince the prison authorities and police that she was telling the truth. What's to say she wasn't just another one of those women who "enjoy conflict" the ones who cause difficulties for transwomen purely for attention, and out of spite?

My gratitude to everyone involved in challenging this dreadful miscarriage of justice, how did the MoJ ever allow itself to be persuaded to exploit the most vulnerable and abused women in their care, demanding they serve as support humans. With zero regard to safeguarding, their specific needs, what would be best for their mental health, well being, and rehabilitation.

It's very clear that the decision makers are well aware which of us are the cunty women. We only have to wait until there's a choice to be made about who goes under the bus. It's always the same lot who get a hard shove in the small of the back - we are never the ones who get escorted to safety, and treated with exaggerated consideration and respect.

ValancyRedfern · 04/03/2021 06:27

The archive isn't working for me. Is it working for others?

Mumofgirlswholiketoplaywithmud · 04/03/2021 06:34

Thank you so much FPFW and @keepprisonssinglesex Flowers, and for all the coverage on this thread

MsMarvellous · 04/03/2021 06:39

@ValancyRedfern

The archive isn't working for me. Is it working for others?
Archives never work for me on my phone. Haven't tried on my desktop mind.
highame · 04/03/2021 07:37

Working for me. Thanks Ovahere. Also thanks to everyone one the board especially Chaz. I hope it's a win, but even if it isn't there is so much sunlight on these issues. A year ago I wouldn't have believed we would have moved so far

TundraDweller · 04/03/2021 08:17

A quick search indicates this case was reported in the Telegraph, Daily Mail and Metro yesterday, but I can’t see it in any papers this morning - can anyone else find it?

The Guardian reported on it on 28 October last year, but I can’t see a follow up now that the case has been heard.

Perhaps all the other major news sources are waiting for the judgement? Or planning on ignoring it completely??

334bu · 04/03/2021 08:22

Perhaps all the other major news sources are waiting for the judgement? Or planning on ignoring it completely??

Unfortunately probably the latter
Who cares about female prisoners anyway?Sad

highame · 04/03/2021 08:41

Waiting for the judgement is my guess. It's a bit of a complex case and I don't think they want to jump in until they''ve thought about it a bit. Maybe weekend papers. There was a lot more coverage of Keira Bell after a few days.

Sophoclesthefox · 04/03/2021 08:43

Sorry if it’s been posted and I’m being thick, but do we have any indication of timeline and next steps?

KeepPrisonsSingleSex · 04/03/2021 08:55

The letter is published here (scroll down!):

www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/2021/03/04/lettersits-no-sin-keep-open-country-church-has-served-1000-years/

ErrolTheDragon · 04/03/2021 08:58

[quote KeepPrisonsSingleSex]The letter is published here (scroll down!):

www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/2021/03/04/lettersits-no-sin-keep-open-country-church-has-served-1000-years/[/quote]
It's behind a paywall, unfortunately.

OvaHere · 04/03/2021 08:59

@Sophoclesthefox

Sorry if it’s been posted and I’m being thick, but do we have any indication of timeline and next steps?
Not really. At the end of the session the judges asked the MoJ to provide further evidence of specific points in writing. So once they have that I guess they'll begin reviewing the evidence.

If I had to guess I'd say maybe 4-6 weeks for a judgement. I don't think it's as complex as the Tavistock case so would expect it to be a bit quicker.

KeepPrisonsSingleSex · 04/03/2021 08:59

Does anyone have links to the Mail and Metro please?

Unfortunately this coincided with both Meghan and the Budget, so we got pushed out. There is strong interest though: we got very good coverage in October when the case was first in court, but was adjourned. The judgement will be covered.

As for timelines: information must be provided to the court in written form by 12th March. The Judges will issue judgement at a later date - going by previous JRs, I would have thought at least a couple of months.