Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

GenderGP... Telegraph expose

133 replies

nevertrustaherdofcows · 26/02/2021 21:23

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/02/26/children-can-order-life-altering-transgender-drugs-bedroom/

OP posts:
Thread gallery
11
Melroses · 27/02/2021 12:12

Also, changing documents like this is all very secret, due to the existance of the GRA and guidance. Hmm

Melroses · 27/02/2021 12:17

Ha ha - Bible bashing Joles only agrees with the last paragraph there - not about the professionalism of GenderGP he is trying to defend Grin

He has so much to give.

Thingybob · 27/02/2021 12:22

@Melroses

Ha ha - Bible bashing Joles only agrees with the last paragraph there - not about the professionalism of GenderGP he is trying to defend Grin

He has so much to give.

Has anyone looked up Psalm 138:8 and is he saying what I think he's saying that the Ghouls at GenderGP are doing Gods work?
Melroses · 27/02/2021 12:24

The Lord will perfect that which concerneth me: thy mercy, O Lord, endureth for ever: forsake not the works of thine own hands

Sexnotgender · 27/02/2021 12:25

@nauticant

At some point Maugham is going to have to find someone(s) to blame for his behaviour over this issue. That is a going to be glorious day. I wonder who'll be in the frame for making him act as he's acting?
Women. We’re to blame for everything.
Xanthangum · 27/02/2021 12:34

@Melroses

... or, "The LORD will work out his plans for my life--for your faithful love, O LORD, endures forever. Don't abandon me, for you made me."

That last bit sounds like an abuser talking, frankly.

BarbaraofKent · 27/02/2021 12:36

Jolyon Maugham is comparing this to abortion again on Twitter today.

So what he is essentially saying is that the state must sanction children being given unlicensed drugs to halt their perfectly normally developing puberty, meaning that their brain will not develop properly, they will miss out on certain hormones vital for their physical development, a lack of which could cause massive long term damage, and will almost definitely mean going on to cross sex hormones which could again cause major long term damage and even possibly death (look at the female doping athletes of the 80s?)

Because otherwise no fucking grown up is going to step in and help these children in another way and so their only option will be to buy these drugs on the dark web?

And that is the same as a 15 year old being able to access a safe abortion?

Sure Jo.....

GenderGP... Telegraph expose
BarbaraofKent · 27/02/2021 12:42

If a 15 year old is pregnant then that is not a mental health issue. No amount of counselling or therapy is going to make a foetus disappear, that 15 year old needs a safe abortion if that's what they want, it is a physical issue. If that abortion is not legally available then yes, they may turn to an illegal abortion because there is literally no other option available if they do not want to be pregnant.

If a 15 year old is so unhappy with their sexed body that they feel that their only options are suicide or buying very dangerous drugs from a dark web seller, then I would say that is a mental health issue. And that someone needs to step in and give that child therapy to help the.

I don't think I have articulated that very well, but to me, this is just not comparable to abortion.

Melroses · 27/02/2021 12:56

[quote Xanthangum]@Melroses

... or, "The LORD will work out his plans for my life--for your faithful love, O LORD, endures forever. Don't abandon me, for you made me."

That last bit sounds like an abuser talking, frankly.[/quote]
Or an abuser using words out of the bible for self absolution of guilt.

ItsLateHumpty · 27/02/2021 12:57

The Webberleys live in the UK, only their business moved to Spain.

twitter.com/DanialWebb/status/1343841998898343939

From twitter thread:

twitter.com/DanialWebb/status/1343815417417101312

“THREAD: Since my recent tweets about GenderGP I've had several clinicians contact me with grave concerns around horrendous safeguarding failures with GenderGP's operation. I'm going to recount one here today. Others will follow. 1/5”

This was posted Dec 2020 and is still up with over 1400 likes so I can only assume the info is accurate.

There is no lords work being done here JM and I for one can’t wait for all the wake up calls.

GenderGP... Telegraph expose
Biscuitsanddoombar · 27/02/2021 13:11

Lots of money flowing to GLP at the moment thanks to the court case against the government over contracts so no doubt he’ll have plenty of money to continue to wage war against all the terrible ppl who think children should be protected from doing things they don’t yet have the capacity to understand or appreciate the consequences of

SmallPug · 27/02/2021 13:55

Does anyone have a share token? I can't get that archive link to work.

dotoallasyouwouldbedoneby · 27/02/2021 14:01

Surely they need to change the rules on prescriptions originating outside the UK because of this. Someone in Egypt prescribing dangerous drugs to a minor beggars belief.

dotoallasyouwouldbedoneby · 27/02/2021 14:08

I've cut and pasted it as best I can:DT 26 February 2021
How children can order life-altering transgender drugs from their bedroom
Online healthcare clinic uses loophole to flout NHS rules and prescribe sex change drugs to under 16s without parental consent'Foreign doctors are prescribing powerful sex change hormones to 15-year-olds in England without their parents’ involvement, a Telegraph investigation has found.

GenderGP, an online transgender healthcare services clinic, uses a legal loophole to flout NHS rules to issue valid prescriptions which can then be used to obtain the medication from pharmacies in Britain.

The sex change, or “cross-sex” hormones irreversibly change users’ bodies over the course of treatment and can also leave users infertile.

An undercover Telegraph reporter posing as a 15-year old girl was prescribed testosterone – the male hormone, which is a controlled drug – after just two Skype appointments with counsellors and one Skype appointment with a doctor at the online clinic.

Staff never asked to speak to her parents nor demand proof that any adult knew of her plans to transition, beyond a single email from a 20-year-old half-brother confirming that he would pay for treatment.

Lead counsellor, Marianne Oakes, said they did not require her parents’ “permission”.
Staff accepted at face value the reporter’s stated belief that she was really male, telling her “we’re not worried about your truth because there’s no debate about that”.GenderGP defended its practices on Thursday, claiming that “not all parents are supportive” and that when a young patient is able to consent to their treatment “in their own right, then that treatment can be appropriate and necessary”.

It also confirmed that it has prescribed cross-sex hormones to children as young as 12, and puberty blockers to children as young as 10.The findings will raise fresh questions over the duty of care shown to patients by the online clinic.

Whilst research suggests that the majority of transgender patients who take cross-sex hormones benefit from the treatment, a minority have regretted doing so and believe they were misdiagnosed or not properly counselled and advised.

The rules around prescribing these drugs to children in England and Wales were significantly tightened last December to guard against children being given unsuitable medications.

Doctors in England and Wales are no longer allowed to prescribe cross-sex hormones or puberty blockers to any child under 16, unless the decision, taken jointly by at least two specialist doctors including a senior hormone specialist and a senior psychosocial clinician, is endorsed by a court order.

Signed off by doctor in Romania
The reporter, posing as a 15-year-old, received a prescription for a four-month supply of 'Testogel'during which time her voice could irreversibly deepen and facial hair start to grow.

It was signed by a doctor in Romania, who the Telegraph has identified as a geriatrician also trained in administering Botox. GenderGP does not offer patients the chance of an appointment with her, even though she authorises the medication. Instead they are directed to a doctor in Egypt, who told the reporter that it was “excellent” that, aged 15, she knew she never wanted to have children.

On Thursday night, Debbie Hayton, a teacher and transgender rights campaigner, called for the loophole to be closed. “For a doctor in Eastern Europe to prescribe a class three controlled drug to a child they have never spoken to is an egregious breach of protocol and safeguarding…the adults need to be called to account.”

GenderGP said it is a global organisation and its specialists are regulated in their respective countries. It added that there are “no formal qualifications in this field” but that its practitioners are “very experienced and fully educated in transgender healthcare”.

The Egyptian doctor, Yasmeen El Rakhawy, also told the reporter over Skype that the online clinic she worked for did not need to go into the same level of detail on certain issues “as other practices will do, or will demand”.

Neither would they insist on regular appointments with medical staff once the 15-year-old started taking the testosterone. “At no point will counselling sessions be enforced. At no point will the medical consultations be, you know, required regularly. It’s only if there’s ever a concern.”
Helen Webberley has been suspended by the Medical Practitioners Tribunal Service since 2018 after she prescribed hormones to a child aged 12
“I have no concern that this is absolutely the right path for you… Getting to that first prescription is on the horizon now. You can anticipate that and I appreciate the excitement.”

Sure enough, the undercover reporter received a valid prescription and secured the life-altering medication without any parental involvement. The process had been relatively simple. All it had taken was three Skype appointments and some emails, which she had been able to do from her bedroom. The clinic had not required proof that her parents knew of her plans.

We started to look at GenderGP after finding comments online that suggested that children were able to obtain drugs under the age of 16, and that some patients were given prescriptions without even talking to a doctor.

We were also made aware of messages posted on a moderated chat forum hosted by Mermaids, a support group for trans minors which has ties with schools, where children had described how they had been able to obtain prescriptions from GenderGP.

Mermaids said on Thursday night that it has no affiliation with GenderGP, but that it is aware that some young transgender people seek private treatment because of the “considerable barriers” if they go via the NHS. It “closely and carefully” monitors any discussions about medical journeys that take place on its platform, it added.

Founder's controversial past
GenderGP is no stranger to controversy. Its founder, GP Dr Helen Webberley, has been suspended by the Medical Practitioners Tribunal Service since 2018 after she prescribed hormones to a child aged 12 – although no finding of fact has been made against her practice.

She was later fined for running an unlicensed trans clinic from her home in Monmouthshire, and is due to face a “substantive” General Medical Council hearing in July.

Eventually, she relocated to Spain and the company was reinvented as a complex international structure which navigates around the rules in England and Wales, and exploits a loophole which makes prescriptions signed by doctors registered anywhere in the EU valid for use at British pharmacies.

It has won a lot of devotees. Last year, GenderGP started more than 1,800 patients on cross-sex hormones, according to an annual report published on its website. It does not state how many it started on puberty-blockers, but it has separately admitted that it has prescribed them to a child aged 10. Nearly one in six of its patients are under the age of 16.
The loophole that allows GenderGP to offer its services to children in the UK
Due to a legal loophole, pharmacies in the UK will accept prescriptions for drugs such as testosterone even when they have been given out over the internet by doctors based in the further reaches of the European Union.

The Government directs pharmacists to accept prescriptions from EU doctors for testosterone and other powerful drugs, such as anabolic steroids, just as they would from a UK doctor.

In fact, only EU prescriptions for drugs that are highly controlled due to their addictiveness and potential for misuse, such as morphine or temazepam, are invalid at pharmacies here.

Even following Brexit, the instruction to honour prescriptions for many drugs from European doctors has remained unchanged, and the loophole remains.

In contrast, other countries who are still in the EU, such as France and Italy, do not allow their pharmacists to accept prescriptions at all from doctors outside their borders.

Concerns are that the prescribed drugs may be inappropriate for the person ordering them, as often the doctors don’t have access to the patients’ NHS medical records.

The foreign-based doctors who issue the prescriptions are also outside the remit of the UK regulators, and the equivalent bodies in countries such as Romania may not be as rigorous as they are here.

For Gender GP, the loophole allows it to continue to offer its services to children in the UK as its prescriptions for testosterone are easily exchanged at high street pharmacies, despite having been issued by a doctor in Romania who has never even spoken to the patient for whom they are prescribing.Patients seeking medical appointments are directed to Dr El Rakhawy in Cairo, whose specialism, if she has one, remains unclear: there is a block of Latin dummy text next to her name on the GenderGP website and her LinkedIn profile reveals that she only finished the university portion of her medical training in 2017.

Prescriptions are signed by the geriatrician in Romania, whose identity GenderGP does not readily disclose – a move that a GenderGP staff member admitted was “cloak and dagger”.

This set up allows children under the age of 16 to order life-altering drugs from their own bedrooms, without any oversight or involvement by a parent or guardian.

When the reporter first contacted the organisation, she told the clinic that her mother and father did not support her decision to transition – believing that her desire to become a boy was something she would simply grow out of.

She said that her support network was so limited that she depended on her half-brother, a university student, to fund the process for her. The medicine cost £112 from a pharmacy, but between the £195 GenderGP set up fee, its £30 monthly subscription and three consultations, the process had so far cost £682.

No one asked to speak to a parent
Over virtual appointments, two GenderGP counsellors and one of its doctors asked the reporter some questions to satisfy themselves that this would not cause problems. They checked that her brother would keep on making the payments, and that the 15-year-old’s parents would not eject her from the family home when the effects of the testosterone became evident.

“What we don’t want to do is be involved in a family row,” explained its lead counsellor Marianne Oakes, in another Skype session.

The 15-year-old did her best to allay any concerns. At GenderGP’s request, her “half-brother” sent a single email confirming that payments would continue uninterrupted. She also told staff via the internet that her parents would eventually come around, and that even if they did not fully endorse her decision, they would not force her to leave home.

No one at GenderGP asked to speak to the brother in person. Nor did they seek any form of contact with Charlie’s parents, or ask for any evidence that they even knew she was seeking treatment.

GenderGP also appeared to fall short of its own stated precautions for patients. Despite requesting in an email that patients under the age of 18 who have support should have an adult with them for part of their Skype calls, the reporter posing as Charlie conducted all of her appointments alone. GenderGP said on Thursday that it was not “an absolute requirement”.

Those checks are there for good reason. Alongside the life-changing physical effects, puberty blockers and cross-sex hormones come with risks – some well-chronicled on the NHS website - and some whose severity of which is still unknown because there is little data about their use in children

Even the makers of Testogel caution against using it on under 18s, because there is “no clinical information” available for such children.

With the hormones, some of the effects – such as facial hair and a deeper voice - are permanent even if users stop taking the medication.

They undoubtedly have a huge positive impact on the lives of many people who take them, but there is also a well-documented minority who feel that they were put on to them too readily and have come to deeply regret the decision.

'I made a brash decision'
The best-known example is Keira Bell, a former patient of the Tavistock clinic who was prescribed puberty blockers at the age of 16, testosterone the following year and subsequently took the clinic to the High Court for failing to “challenge” her sufficiently.

“I made a brash decision as a teenager, (as a lot of teenagers do) trying to find confidence and happiness, except now the rest of my life will be negatively affected,” she told the court, describing her regret.

The NHS has strict protocols in place to guard against this sort of situation, even if they failed in her case. Children in England and Wales should not be prescribed cross-sex hormones until “around 16”, and after a year on puberty blockers and an extended period of assessment by a multi-disciplinary team.

Any decision to prescribe puberty blockers or hormones before their 16th birthday must be overseen by at least two specialist doctors directly involved in their care, including a consultant endocrinologist and a senior psychosocial clinician.

Following the Keira Bell ruling, it must also be endorsed by a court order. The judges presiding over that case ruled that it was “doubtful” that 14- and 15-year-olds could “weigh the long-term risks and consequences”.

However, as the Telegraph’s investigation found, GenderGP provides a short-cut.

While GenderGP confirmed the evidence that the Telegraph uncovered, it defended its practice on Thursday. It said that it treats children according to “stage not age”, and that there may “occasionally be compelling reasons” to prescribe cross-sex hormones to a 12-year-old who is “completely aligned with their gender identity”.

It added that it assesses patients’ capacity to consent in a number of ways, including email messaging, questionnaires and consultations, but that “not all parents are supportive, and when a young patient is able to consent to their treatment in their own right, then that treatment can be appropriate and necessary.”

“GenderGP operates according to a gender-affirming model of care. Transgender patients of all ages who come to our service can be assured of receiving belief, support and compassionate access to medical care,” it said.

The clinic also subscribes to an “informed consent” model, in which the patient makes their own decision about what treatment they should pursue, “using a combination of their own understanding of their situation and needs, and the medical advice supplied to best inform them.”

The clinic believes that children are capable of giving their “informed consent” – even, it would seem, under the age of 16, operating alone from their childhood bedroom, and without an adult present.

AuntyFungal · 27/02/2021 14:12

So which doctor is a specialist in endocrinology / MH etc...

Would that be the geriatric (elderly medicine) doctor? Nope...
Would that be the Egyptian doctor - who knows...

I was under the impression that in the UK, the prescribing doctors were endocrinologists.

Ah Egypt - a bastion of feminism with a side order of FGM.

SmallPug · 27/02/2021 14:15

Thanks dotoall - I meant to buy it when I took the kids out and then forgot!

What a racket. I'm glad this is having mainstream coverage.

dotoallasyouwouldbedoneby · 27/02/2021 14:24

The prescriptions may be Romanian in origin rather than Egyptian not sure but so very dodgy all of it. Hard to take legal action against these people when the cavalier prescribing has its negative effects down the line.

PronounssheRa · 27/02/2021 14:28

@dotoallasyouwouldbedoneby

The prescriptions may be Romanian in origin rather than Egyptian not sure but so very dodgy all of it. Hard to take legal action against these people when the cavalier prescribing has its negative effects down the line.
It's all so murky and so when it goes wrong, and it will, it will be hard to hold anyone accountable.

This would be bad enough if we were talking about adults, but this is 12 year old being prescribed cross sex hormones.

It's a disgrace.

PikesPeaked · 27/02/2021 15:28

If Jolyon wants to take the Bible for guidance, he should look at Leviticus 19:14.

Those prescriptions for puberty blockers and cross-sex hormones are stumbling blocks placed deliberately in front of children who are blind to the damage being inflicted upon them.

teawamutu · 27/02/2021 23:14

Tool.

Wasn't he all up in arms about the counsel in the Bell case having links to a Christian organisation?

Ereshkigalangcleg · 27/02/2021 23:40

Apparently they will supply a letter to change the gender marker on your passport too for a small sum.

Hope the census case comes to court, useful evidence.

MiddlesexGirl · 28/02/2021 00:09

There was also this panel in the print version.

GenderGP... Telegraph expose
Thingybob · 28/02/2021 00:10

Regarding passports, GIDS clinicians will also write a supporting letter stating that the change of gender is likely to be permanent. I believe that is how Leo from 'I am Leo' got a new passport when they were just 13.

MiddlesexGirl · 28/02/2021 00:10

Why this is not considered as akin to FGM is bewildering to me.

yourhairiswinterfire · 28/02/2021 00:29

Baroness Nicholson seems optimistic. Someone tweeted at her asking if anything can be done, and she replied:

On to it since December last and winning through now

Remember, she wrote to Matt Hancock not long ago asking him to close the loophole by making them controlled drugs, which would mean they wouldn't be able to prescribe them in this way anymore.

Hoping for some good news soon, this is just sickening.