History in the making! Watch Parliament Live at 2.30pm!

[Sunkisses]

According to @SexMattersOrg on Twitter the Govt have backed down on the MOMA (Maternity) Bill and will now use the word 'mother' not 'person' in the legislation!

Women did this! We are winning!

Tune in live here at 2.30pm to see history in the making: www.parliamentlive.tv/Event/Index/3ca1efa2-16a5-489d-a5a0-5d929bff81f6

Strangely, I think Winston spoke in the debates before the GRA and gave the impression that the existence of Dsds makes the whole thing very complicated so we should pass the law to allow ppl to change legal sex. If I remember right from threads on that. Sorry to put a dampener on him!

It sounds like they might have allowed 'mother' in the act but not 'woman'. Probably a pragmatic outcome that serves the same purpose of drawing a line, but doesn't rile up the claims of misgendering.

I don’t think I’ve ever seen this much sense and reason expressed on this topic by members of the government. So many marvellous quotes!

@SantaNameChange

Wow Claire Fox talking about Selina Todd - woooohoooo

She's great, isn't she?

They all get it! It's like watching FWR on telly!

Baroness Fox challenges Baroness Barker's depiction of the arguments for the defence of women's rights as being comparable to those made against immigration or lesbian and gay rights. Camera focuses on Baroness Barker looking very uncomfortable

"For a group to be properly protected by the law, they must be properly identified in the law"

Yes!

Ok i think i get it now, so if a woman changed her gender to a man then he should act like a man which would mean not becoming pregnant as a man as he cant have it both ways right?

JoeBlack066 this isnt the thread for that discussion, however if you want to start a thread where you can explain the difference between males and transwomen, feel free.
No ones managed to explain it yet!

Strangely, I think Winston spoke in the debates before the GRA and gave the impression that the existence of Dsds makes the whole thing very complicated so we should pass the law to allow ppl to change legal sex. If I remember right from threads on that. Sorry to put a dampener on him! incorrect, he has always said it is not possible to change, there isn't the medical expertise or possibility to do this

@Jacketpotato84

Why is this so important? Forgive me for not being in the know but mothers and women are a "person" why the big deal i dont get it?? What if a transman where pregnant would they now have to be referred to as a mother? Confused

Yes, because a trans man who has a child is legally that child’s mother, and is recorded as such on the birth certificate. This has been the subject of a long battle by trans man Freddie McConnell, and the final ruling made by the court is quite clear, women give birth, therefore the person who gives birth should be recorded as the child’s mother no matter what their current gender status is. A birth certificate’s purpose is to record the child’s birth accurately, not to bolster the frail ego of its parent.

Please start a thread with this. You raise some interesting points, but this isn't the thread to discuss them.

No sarcasm, just a plea not to divert a real time thread.

That is totally off-topic and a ill-disguised attempt to derail the thread, @Joeblack066

JacketPotato only females (girls and women) can get pregnant.

How people identify has nothing to do with biology, and pregnancy is all about the biology!

Winston, and others like him, have spoken to find a middle point and been faced with the excitable claims of transactivists that such a middle point is literal violence, and has quite clearly shifted his position to a much clearer one, though no less well and politely expressed.

(I note we now have a poster flinging a 'women are going to get raped anyway' dead cat in. Not gonna dampen my sunshine, you charmer. This is a win. Take your misogyny that uses the ubiquitousness of rape as a lever to squash women down and stick it)

The Lib Dems need to get out of their victim bunker and engage with some reality (and also perhaps stop taking so much advice from Helen Belcher)

They really should. But I’m sure they won’t. They’ll just be congratulating themselves on how they and they alone have the courage and the integrity to stand up to this “alt right” bigotry and awfulness.

Thank god they’ll never be in power again.

@Joeblack066 please feel free to start a thread on the points you have made here, I will happily discuss them all but don't really want to derail this thread.

Gargh my post was also to Joe

Who is speaking now (photo only)? What a strong statement to begin with (re breastfeeding)

A pregnant transman would still be the child's birth mother, even if they chose to identify as the father. No matter what a person choses to identify as, the transman in this situation would still in reality be the mother.

What would you put on the child's birth certificate under 'mother'? Would you ask for it to be changed to father so that the certificate had father down twice?

People do not give birth, only women do and it is idiocy to have a law that states otherwise.

Take your misogyny that uses the ubiquitousness of rape as a lever to squash women down and stick it

Well said, that woman.

@Joeblack066, yes please do start your own thread on this.

"The Government has acknowledged the importance of women in giving birth" - Baroness Uddin (non-affiliated)

Thank you for helping me understand i learned something today

Baroness Uddin objects to the words chest feeding - she breast fed her 5 children, not her husband.

Re Claire Fox's speech: I had missed that awful news about the RISE refuge in Brighton losing funding as it is not male-inclusive. Is there a thread on it? Sounds like something we should do some digging for

Lord Polak talking about the dangers of government listening to a vocal minority at the expense of the silent majority