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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Change petition in place to remove all GC voices from Twitter

117 replies

MummBraTheEverLeaking · 17/02/2021 23:33

Wondered why 'transphobia' was trending on twitter, saw lots of links to a petition basically calling ANY gender critical account to be booted off Twitter!!

Words of the petition below (and it is VERY wordy!) Apparently if you're GC in the UK on twitter you've got hundreds of fake accounts on the go and are part of a huge sinister network too! Must have missed my invite to that then Grin

They're most likely shouting into the void but if Twitter even gives this a nod and it ends up going the way of reddit (GC = no, some fucked up porn discussions = a ok) I blummin despair.

Twitter,

Over the last year the world has become a hotbed of transphobia, largely as a result of your platform and a lack of moderation and oversight.We are a group of Transgender people and their allies and today we are here to ask you to put an end to this.

Many Transgender people are leaving twitter as we cannot bare the Hatred and abuse that is directed at us on your platform from so called “Gender Critical” people. The latest to leave being Munroe Bergdorf, one of the most visible and respected members of our community.

Transphobic groups have been growing rapidly on your platform, many of them originating in the UK for the purpose of harassing our media, politics, education and healthcare influencers. They have now created a large network of fake accounts with which to spread their hate throughout the rest of the world. They have been allowed to attack and denigrate us. They have been allowed to stir up hatred. They have been allowed to openly mock us. Twitter has largely ignored the rising tide of hatred directed at our community from your platform.

During this pandemic Transphobic groups have flourished on twitter, making an already difficult situation for our small community even harder. This is no longer an issue of free speech, this is no longer a political debate, this is no longer a disagreement of ideas, this is an assault on our community and our lives that is severely affecting our health, our happiness and our wellbeing every single day.

The effect’s on the mental health of the Transgender population around the world during the pandemic are staggering. Wait times on the NHS in Britain have been extended up to five years. Youth must now go to court in order to receive life saving puberty blockers. The media has become so hostile that many of us feel destitute. This is largely a direct result of your inability to remove this disinformation and hatred campaign from your platform. Our small community is being decimated by the relentless bullying on social media by “Gender Criticals", besetting a barrage of attacks upon our community while we have no recourse of protest during lockdown. These disagreements have now spilled from twitter onto the streets of our cities, with Transphobic graffiti and signs being placed in public bathrooms, changing rooms, and on streets not just in the UK, but internationally - all clearly using the language of this twitter mob. This hatred is bleeding into and now seeding itself in most other western countries. We cannot let this hatred keep spreading.

These groups have created a coded language in order to mask their transphobic bigotry in plain sight and avoid the ban hammer. So far it has worked exceedingly well in the UK. We stand accused of being misogynists and homophobes simply for being who we are. This is a recurring theme among these groups, spouting bigotry while simultaneously launching claims that we are in fact the bigots simply for being ourselves. They may call themselves Gender critical but how is this any different from Race realist if the outcome of their hatred, however coded it may be, is the same. They have manufactured a climate of hatred and disgust, pitting feminism and gay rights against the Transgender community in an attempt to tear our communities apart and isolate us. They bully us. They relentlessly hound anybody who so much as mentions our community without disparagement. They advocate for conversion therapy for trans youth. They claim we are mentally ill and confused. They call our life saving surgery mutilation. They use the names of our past lives against us. They seek to agitate by referring to us by pronouns they know will upset us. They search for photos of before our transitions that they can laugh at and degrade us with. They spread disinformation and lies about our community, framing us as child abusers, perverts and sexual predators. They claim we are part of a conspiracy theory, manufactured by large corporations to sell medicine. They eviscerate any trace of us from our own history. They trivialise and laugh at our days of remembrance. They work every day to make our lives harder and harder. They claim censorship and cancel culture if we talk about them. They sue us if we call them Transphobic. They deny us our dignity and seek to erase us by claiming that who we are, which we cannot change, is a dangerous fiction.

Over a year ago Reddit took appropriate action to address the issue of rising transphobia on their platform under the “Gender Critical” guise, those same groups moved their bigotry to twitter where their hatred has been allowed to flourish unhindered and with renewed energy. Twitter has largely ignored this rising tide, we believe now it is time to put an end to the dog whistle politics and stirring up of a torrent of hatred and abuse towards our small community. All of us believe in free speech, robust debate and an open democracy. This however is just Transphobia repackaged for the mass market and it is effective in convincing the laymen that we are a threat to society.

There are several accounts, growing in number each day and hiding behind faux feminism and gay liberation to promote Transphobia in Britain and across the globe. I would very much like to link them here, however these groups have decided on a joint strategy of extreme litigiousness and I fear reprisal at their hand. This is just further evidence of how sinister these groups have become, so much so that they will attempt to sue anyone who criticises them.

These are Hate groups by any other name, verifiably so and we call upon you to act by ensuring that we are not victim’s of their hatred on your platform where it appears that for sexism, racism, ableism, homophobia and religious prejudice there is one set of rules but for transphobia there is another.

OP posts:
rabbitwoman · 18/02/2021 08:24

This has not been my experience on twitter. I am now pretty openly GC, but I am ever respectful.

I have dipped my toe in a few times, most notably the Innocent smoothies thread - what I found was a lot of replies that very quickly descended into insults and bullying. Looking at the profiles of the people I was interacting with, they had very few followers themselves and seemed to follow very few people despite having had profiles for a few years; no pictures of themselves in their profiles or feeds (my profile is a photo of me, my feed full of pictures of me!), and they just spoke nonsense. One pair actually thought it was the funniest thing they could say to call me a transwoman, it was a huge 'burn' - and they could not see the horrible transphobia in that themselves, more transphobic then anything I have ever said. It seemed from the way they were speaking they were very young.

I also found, amongst the madness, two or three people who were interested in debate, respectful, polite and knowledgeable even though we disagreed, and always thanked them for their time. Those people made me think and consider other sides to this issue more than threats, insults and blocking ever would. Food for thought....

Winesalot · 18/02/2021 08:28

I think anyone bringing Bergdorf in as an example of marginalised needs to perhaps reread the definition and then look at exactly what Bergdorf has been saying over the past ten years. The abuse that they have verbalized and written is easy to find. yet Bergdorf still takes roles as LGBT officer for the Labour Party and tells women they cannot talk about their biology or protest on their own terms at Pride. That is just one example. It is not hard to find many more. And yet, an organization chose them to speak on behalf of women on IWD21. Again.

Last year they were featured to speak on behalf of women at another IWD event. A person who has a record for calling women barren, or hairy dykes, or just controlling what women want to protest about. And has repeatedly told women they are not womaning correctly or the ‘right kind’ of feminists.

So, I’d really like someone who believes that women telling Bergdorf, that Bergdorf does not represent them is abuse, to explain how women can get the message across. While I cannot condone abusive messages, I have seen mildly worded messages classed as abuse when they state indisputable facts presented completely impersonally. Meaning ‘abusing’ and ‘unsafe’ have become silencing tactics.

Considering who receives the brunt of this silencing is women, you obviously think women should remain silent while boundaries are removed.

Have you seen what happened in France recently? Maybe you should start reading the result of pushing this type of agenda through when it happened in France when they lowered boundaries for children and women.

And people allowed it, believing it was inclusive and nice. Be very very careful in silencing women who can see the effects where you cannot. Laws, once changed are very hard to retract. And the truly vulnerable people are the victims, put there through ‘kindness’.

What you are calling transphobic, may be, or it may be a group’s agenda that ‘any dissent’ is seen as transphobia to stop people trying to protect safeguarding, safe spaces and the opportunities put in place to eradicate discrimination based on sex.

Or do you believe that safeguarding is no longer needed and that females experience no sexist discrimination anymore?

BraveBananaBadge · 18/02/2021 08:32

Unfortunately a few blue ticks, including the Derry Girls actress, are plugging this petition. Be kind and all that.

I wondered when women would get the blame for Munroe leaving Twitter, only surprised no one's brought it to MN's door yet.

DancelikeEmmaGoldman · 18/02/2021 08:37

Excessive wordiness. ✅
Random capitalisation. ✅
Poor spelling. ✅
Misplaced apostrophes. ✅
Generalisations and unsupported claims. ✅
Lack of definitions or evidence. ✅
Hyperbole and fashionable phrases. ✅
No formal role as community representative. ✅
No timelines for collecting signatures, or numbers of signatures required. ✅
No plan for presenting petition & keeping supporters updated on progress. ✅
Not addressed to a specific representative of Twitter who has the necessary capacity to address concerns. ✅
No capital T for Twitter. ✅

It’s all the things I hate most about e-petitions.

GrumpyMiddleAgedWoman · 18/02/2021 08:39

do they understand how words work?
Plainly not, if phrases like 'her penis' are anything to go by.

Winesalot · 18/02/2021 08:42

Hasn’t Bergdorf left Twitter a couple of times already?

SunsetBeetch · 18/02/2021 08:42

@rabbitwoman

This has not been my experience on twitter. I am now pretty openly GC, but I am ever respectful.

I have dipped my toe in a few times, most notably the Innocent smoothies thread - what I found was a lot of replies that very quickly descended into insults and bullying. Looking at the profiles of the people I was interacting with, they had very few followers themselves and seemed to follow very few people despite having had profiles for a few years; no pictures of themselves in their profiles or feeds (my profile is a photo of me, my feed full of pictures of me!), and they just spoke nonsense. One pair actually thought it was the funniest thing they could say to call me a transwoman, it was a huge 'burn' - and they could not see the horrible transphobia in that themselves, more transphobic then anything I have ever said. It seemed from the way they were speaking they were very young.

I also found, amongst the madness, two or three people who were interested in debate, respectful, polite and knowledgeable even though we disagreed, and always thanked them for their time. Those people made me think and consider other sides to this issue more than threats, insults and blocking ever would. Food for thought....

Yes there are always some trolls. That doesn't mean all GC accounts should be banned, which is what the petitioner wants.
MenopausalCrone · 18/02/2021 08:43

If anyone reads Molesmokes post and still doesn’t agree, I think they’re seriously beyond reach!

SunsetBeetch · 18/02/2021 08:46

This is the Innocent smoothies thread. I'm not seeing a huge number of trolling accounts or insulting posts. I'm sorry that was your experience though rabbitwoman

twitter.com/innocent/status/1355090886212923393?s=20

Surely taking action against trolls of all stripes would be a better action to take.

DickKerrLadies · 18/02/2021 08:47

In the words of Datun - accusations are admissions.

gardenbird48 · 18/02/2021 08:53

great post Molesmokes!

having had a quick look at the posts some of the trending is down to a mtf transgender person of colour called Sai who pulled a bit of a 'prank' overnight and claimed to have been kidnapped and was filming messages pleading for help. They got that trending and people panicking and desperately trying to find them and help until it turned out to be fake and the person was at their friends house in a cupboard and absolutely fine.

Many people are either furious and disowning this person as a member of the trans community or defending that person and saying that you shouldn't have a go at them for what they did because that would be transph*a...

BarbaraofKent · 18/02/2021 08:56

@SunsetBeetch

And stop trying to make transmisogyny happen. It's not going to happen.
Grin

It's just yet another example of an appropriation of something that isn't theirs to use.

How anyone has to audacity to create this, or share it, when the thousands of horrendous death/violence/rape threats directed at JK Rowling are out there for all to see, I have no idea. Embarrassing.

OnlyTheLangoftheTitBerg · 18/02/2021 08:59

Women on Twitter: threatened with rape, murder, assault, loss of employment...no action taken against those making threats.

TW on Twitter: hears about (does not see for self) someone retweeting a mildly offensive limerick. Successfully arranged for police to visit retweeter (not author) to “check their thinking”. Hate incident recorded against retweeter.

So marginalised. So powerless. So oppressed.

LaVitaPuoEsserePiuBella · 18/02/2021 09:01

I couldn't wade through that adolescent tirade of a plea for a petition. How many times do they have to use the words hate/hatred??
It's terrifying how so much of the population has been manipulated into believing that questioning something is an indication of "hatred". I'm looking at you, SNP.

Darcinian · 18/02/2021 09:07

Ah yes, lifesaving healthcare. By which they mean cross sex hormones; boob jobs or mastectomies; genital surgery; jaw bone shaving; hair removal. All of which is experimental in the treatment of gender dysphoria. Increasing body of evidence is showing that there are debilitating side effects, the treatments do not seem to alleviate dysphoria, researchers say mental health worsens long term.

And how do these experimental treatments save lives? Someone says they will commit suicide if doctors don't give them this experimental treatment that will damage a healthy body and likely make them feel worse.

Give me what I want or I will kill myself and if I do it is your fault.

That's not lifesaving healthcare. It is wrong to tell dysphoric young people that they must have these dodgy experimental "treatments" or they will inevitably die by killing themselves.

Totally irresponsible of Twitter and other outlets to allow the term "lifesaving healthcare" when talking about cross sex hormones and surgery. It is promoting suicide to vulnerable people. That should be banned.

Sophoclesthefox · 18/02/2021 09:10

@NotBadConsidering

The belief that Twitter represents the real world already causes a great deal of problems in all aspects of life for people. We’ve seen this in politics (“Labour are doing AMAZING on Twitter they are totes going to be elected!”)

Fewer than 5% of the world’s population is a Twitter user, so demanding the removal of those who don’t bend to your ideology just means it’s likely to be more of a shock than it currently is when you meet that view in real life. It wouldn’t end well.

Exactly this. There are so many problems caused by people conflating social media with real life.

This is a silly petition, regardless of whether I agree with the content and aims or not. If people want to be taken seriously when complaining about an issue, then the complaint needs to be far, far better articulated.

What happened? Give specifics, give examples
To whom did it happen?
When did it happen?
What was the result of it? What was the detriment?
What do you realistically want the remedy to be?

This is just a great big wail of dismay that people don’t agree and they’re mean. It’s infantile and I’m embarrassed for anyone who finds it credible. Stop encouraging vulnerable people to give away their power like this! You’re telling them “you can never be happy while there are people in the world who don’t think you’re wonderful”. Be actually helpful to them: tell them that other people’s opinions are not the sum total of their self worth.

teawamutu · 18/02/2021 09:12

How many signatures so far? Refuse to give them clicks

ChattyLion · 18/02/2021 09:14

Good grief - that's like Adrian Mole on acid.

GrinGrinGrinGrin

That petition shows some highly committed DARVO

BaronessWrongCrowd · 18/02/2021 09:18

So they want to silence people for having a factual opinion now do they?

It's happened quite few times throughout history, never ended well.

Mummyoflittledragon · 18/02/2021 09:18

@Whatsnewpussyhat

Funny how they accuse others of their own tactics.

Let's start a campaign for twitter to ban all the TRA'S who send death and rape threats to women and all the paedophiles that don't even bother to hide behind cutesy avatars.

This. I don’t have the energy to do so, but I would definitely sign it.
rabbitwoman · 18/02/2021 09:25

It does seem that transphobia has a very low bar.

For instance, suggesting allowing trans women into women's sports may not be fair for women.

Just questioning that and wanting to talk about that is being called out as transphobia.

JosephineBaker · 18/02/2021 09:27

Someone failed their English GCSE.

SunsetBeetch · 18/02/2021 09:39

@teawamutu

How many signatures so far? Refuse to give them clicks
It will be a lot. Twitter is dominated by TRAs and their allies.
NothingTraLaLa · 18/02/2021 09:45

My word. Someone is in desperate need of an editor.

MummBraTheEverLeaking · 18/02/2021 09:45

As of now, 3043.

OP posts:
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