How many women (or men) identify as cisgender?

[hallouminatus]

On another forum, I said "Most women don't identify as cisgender, and many feel that describing them as such is disrespectful". Someone has asked me for evidence of this. I think it's probably true, but I haven't seen any statistics or even estimates of numbers. I'm interested in any evidence or arguments which would either support or refute my statement.

[ChancesWhatChances]

Sorry completely misread your post. Thought is said “do not have a clear sex”. I really need to start wearing my glasses!

[Cailleach1]

@SionnachRua

Sure, I have no problem with it. It's a bit like being European, I think about that very rarely but if asked what continent I'm from, I'd definitely call myself European.

But are you really a red fox as per your user name? If you identified as such, would that mean you really are a red fox?

[mayjaye]

@Bluesername

just politely clarifying the role of antonyms in response to an invalid syllogism

Actually, it isn't particularly polite to pick people up on grammatical points. In any case, cis is not an antonym of trans, so your argument doesn't apply. My point was not as simple as you assume; it was that it is just as absurd to say that transwomen are women as it is to say that women (whom you would refer to as 'cis') are male.

My apologies, Bluesername; I did misunderstand your point, thank you for clarifying. We disagree about transwomen being women and what cis means.

[mayjaye]

@Bluesername

I'd prefer to state my opinion politely and leave it there out of respect for each other's time was what you said on Saturday. And yet here you are still mansplaining

Your aggravation makes sense given my misunderstanding above. It just seems rude to totally ignore replies, thus my brief responses.

[pitterpatterrain]

Merrymouse agree with your PP- “I realise that you might dislike the reference to sexism, but nobody has ever explained gender identity in a way that isn’t either sexist or meaningless.”

By asking if you are “cis” it is basically asking if I agree with stereotyping - so no thanks

[MissBarbary]

10:16Cailleach1

SionnachRua

Sure, I have no problem with it. It's a bit like being European, I think about that very rarely but if asked what continent I'm from, I'd definitely call myself European

But are you really a red fox as per your user name? If you identified as such, would that mean you really are a red fox?

Has anyone ever been asked which continent they are from?

How could that ever be relevant in any context - whether cultural or legal? Beyond possibly someone of Latino/ Hispanic ethnicity possibly wanting to specify whether they had been born in one or other of the 2 political land masses which make up the geographical land mass of North America rather than one of the many political land masses which make up the geographical land mass of South America (and "I'm Canadian/Argentinian etc, etc would be far easier and relevant)

[MumsTheWordFact]

We're constantly berated these days for labelling other groups so why do we have to accept a label we didn't create?

[WhatWouldPhyllisCraneDo]

I asked DS2 (14) if he identified as cis. Once I'd explained what it meant he said
"So basically its a load of bull crap. I'm a boy because I have male chromosomes and a penis. Not because of what I like. I'm not cis. I'm just me"
He then said that if likes and dislikes had any bearing on if we were boys or girls then he would have been a girl when he was small as he loved pink, bunnies and all things "girlie" (we didn't have boy/girl things just "things" but he always preferred the traditional girls things much to his dad's annoyance)

[NiceGerbil]

MumsTheWordFact

We get to be labelled and told what to do because we always have been.

Using more overt or subtle methods in different places at different times.

To way too many men, women are a set of 2D stereotypes. And if we kick at them, we are pushed back to a greater or a lesser extent.

No of course we can't expect to have our choices of name etc respected. All the years of women being called the wrong name, automatically put in certain roles, relegated to second applicant on important things they applied for because there is s man on the scene.

That's all making a fuss, don't be silly, it's tradition, not important, etc etc

This happens and boom! Dead naming. Wrong pronouns are hate speech etc etc.

The stuff with women's titles names etc has been going on since the 70s with slow progress and still women told often by other women to STFU.

and now we have a new externally imposed name.

It's all kind of. New but not new.

So we keep going.

[PolkadotZebras]

@MichelleofzeResistance

Unpack the logic.

Person A: I reject these labels and words, they do not match my internal sense of self, and I relate to these words I choose. Please use those words for me which value my sense of self and respect my feelings.

Person B: Ok

Person A: I however label you with this word. You must call yourself that at all times too.

Person B: But I don't relate to that word? I relate to other words and beliefs and my choice of language is this, not the word you're sticking on me. Actually that word makes me really uncomfortable and jars with my own beliefs.

Person A: That does not matter.

Person B: You just asked me to not label you and use only the words you choose because of valuing your sense of self and your feelings, and I said yes fine, so - you get to choose and I don't? Your sense of self and your feelings matter but mine don't? And you expect me to provide you with the service of your chosen words but you're not extending any of the same basic respect back to me in return?

Person A: Name calling, shaming, rage unless you comply.

^^ That is the best description of it all I have read.