How many women (or men) identify as cisgender?

[hallouminatus]

On another forum, I said "Most women don't identify as cisgender, and many feel that describing them as such is disrespectful". Someone has asked me for evidence of this. I think it's probably true, but I haven't seen any statistics or even estimates of numbers. I'm interested in any evidence or arguments which would either support or refute my statement.

No, they can fuck right off and take their pronouns with them.

I find 'cis' so infuriating! Definitely don't accept it as a descriptor, I'm a woman. More often than not it seems to me to be used as a virtue signaller, or a put-down.

Sure, I have no problem with it. It's a bit like being European, I think about that very rarely but if asked what continent I'm from, I'd definitely call myself European.

But you are European. This country is a subset of the continent of Europe so we can say we are European , we are also British Europeans or even Little Whomping in the Marsh Somethingshire British Europeans.

This is totally different as you are being asked to call yourself a subset of a group because someone who doesn't belong to that group wants to appropriate the name. Woman is the word used to describe a member of the female sex , transwomen are not members of that group so the word cis meaning a non trans woman is a nonsense in this context. Transwomen are gender non- conforming members of the male sex not the female sex.

@FishWithoutABike

I don’t mind the use of ‘cis’ when discussing trans or gender issues. It sometimes helps to have a word for clarification. I don’t ‘identify’ as anything though. I’m just a woman because I am an adult human female.

The words for clarification are transwoman or transman - no spaces as they are not a type of woman or man. No need at all to subset women or men with cis. Women and men, female and male work perfectly fine.

The people coming up with all of these terms also need to realise unless there is some big national campaign a lot of normal, everyday women are never going to hear this term and have no idea. Until a week ago I had never heard of it and if they changes forms to all of these terms and it was a choice on a form over female I would be having to ask someone which one 'I am' as I wouldn't of had a clue!

@334bu

*Sure, I have no problem with it. It's a bit like being European, I think about that very rarely but if asked what continent I'm from, I'd definitely call myself European.*

But you are European. This country is a subset of the continent of Europe so we can say we are European , we are also British Europeans or even Little Whomping in the Marsh Somethingshire British Europeans.

This is totally different as you are being asked to call yourself a subset of a group because someone who doesn't belong to that group wants to appropriate the name. Woman is the word used to describe a member of the female sex , transwomen are not members of that group so the word cis meaning a non trans woman is a nonsense in this context. Transwomen are gender non- conforming members of the male sex not the female sex.

Calling myself cis isn't a problem for me. It may be a problem for you but doesn't trouble me in the slightest. I'm as much cis as I am European.

I'm as much cis as I am European.

But European isn't an identity. It's a simple statement of fact tethered to an objective truth. The most hard line Brexiter who hates everything South of Dover and East of Norfolk can't avoid the fact that England is geographically part of Europe.

Cis literally means 'identifies with norms, behaviours and roles associated with being a woman'. 100 years ago this would have meant that you wouldn't have been deemed worthy of receiving an education, and in many parts of the world it still does. It means you identify with a belief that women should dress and present in a particular way.

I accept that many women do believe this. I just don't understand why, or why they would think that this is in any way progressive. You aren't adding anything to the conversation if you can't explain why you would agree with such a regressive concept.

The question was whether or not women identify as cisgender. I said I do, because I do. If you don't, then you don't - that doesn't bother me or impact my identification as cis.

Now, there's a whole other conversation that MN will dive into about gender roles etc. But that's not the main focus of the thread and I'm not particularly interested in engaging in a circular argument. I've just responded to the question.

I absolutely do NOT identify as cisgender. I refuse to be defined as a subset of women.

Now, there's a whole other conversation that MN will dive into about gender roles etc. But that's not the main focus of the thread and I'm not particularly interested in engaging in a circular argument. I've just responded to the question.

It's an unavoidable part of the conversation. You might as well say "I believe the earth is flat" and then not explain why.

@merrymouse

Now, there's a whole other conversation that MN will dive into about gender roles etc. But that's not the main focus of the thread and I'm not particularly interested in engaging in a circular argument. I've just responded to the question.

It's an unavoidable part of the conversation. You might as well say "I believe the earth is flat" and then not explain why.

A conversation with you about it doesn't interest me. That's as simple as I can make this. I answered a question posed by an OP.

I'm as much cis as I am European.

Are there any other medical conditions you describe yourself as not having, as a personal identity?

Not me nor any woman I know. Totally offensive.

A conversation with you about it doesn't interest me.

I imagine that's because you don't really have any answers and simply adopt an identity label because you think you should, without questioning anything much.

You're European because you were born in and/or live in Europe. It's not really the same.

A conversation with you about it doesn't interest me. That's as simple as I can make this. I answered a question posed by an OP.

You obviously have no obligation to defend the concept of 'cis', but the lack of people who are prepared to do so continues to suggest that it is indefensible .

It does, doesn't it?

If I were to adopt "cis" as a label on a chilly day in hell, it would be to distinguish myself as someone who doesn't identify as the opposite sex, from those women (adult human females) who identify as "trans men".

Women are not a subset of our own sex. We are the sex, so trying to claim it refers to a group of male people doesn't work for me.

@Ereshkigalangcleg

I'm as much cis as I am European.

Are there any other medical conditions you describe yourself as not having, as a personal identity?

Sure. Try neurotypical on for size.

Try neurotypical on for size.

Neurotypical isn't a personal identity, and it is offensive to suggest that it is.

@merrymouse

Try neurotypical on for size.

Neurotypical isn't a personal identity, and it is offensive to suggest that it is.

I'll happily identify myself as neurotypical and able bodied. And cis.

If that bothers you, well...I don't care, actually. I suppose it'll just continue to bother you.

I suppose it comes down to whether or not you feel an entitlement to forcibly label other people whether or not they agree, consent or identify with the label you have chosen for them.

Call yourself whatever you like. People are likely to respect your choice for yourself if you in turn respect their choice for themselves.

When it becomes a 'you MUST respect that person but no one needs to respect how you feel and you don't get to choose' situation, it's going nowhere positive, is it?

'Able bodied' isn't an identity either. People have or don't have disabilities regardless of their identity.

It really doesn't matter whether you 'bother me'. I'm just a stranger on the internet. However, it might be helpful for you to be aware that your concept of identity is offensive.

This was also in the OP

"I'm interested in any evidence or arguments which would either support or refute my statement."