Staniland Question is so good. Can we think of others?

[aliasundercover]

The Staniland question:
Do you believe that male-sexed people have the right to undress and shower in a communal changing room with teenage girls?
is so clever. The fact that so many people refuse to engage with it - let alone answer it - means it's a quick, powerful, way of showing how ridiculous the TWAW position is.

Can we think of any others that would be as effective? Maybe we could come up with 5 or so really sharp questions that TRAs could refuse to answer. My first thoughts are something along the lines of:
Why is it racist to identify as another race but stunning and brave to identify as another sex?
I'm sure somebody can word that better.

So any suggestions? The questions need to be short and clear.

DS1 would shoot back: No. Nor would I choose a post menopausal woman, a woman born female but without a womb or an infertile woman, like the one who needs a surrogate - is she not a woman for needing a surrogate?

Fair enough Labobo, but would a TW even be on the shortlist?
A post menopausal woman could still be a option in some circumstances, a Transwoman never could.

How do you know you 'feel like a woman' when you've never been female?

(There is a 13% chance of a man dying if he has a blood transfusion from a woman who has been pregnant).

No there isn't. One study, which is somewhat controversial, has found that men have a 13% higher chance of dying, which is very different to 13% of them will die. You can read about it here: www.statnews.com/2017/10/17/blood-transfusions-pregnant-women/

'what is a woman?'

Answers must avoid any circular definition, such as 'a woman is someone who identities as a woman'...

Hold the interlocutor to a tangible definition. .

@PurpleWh1teGreen

DS1 would shoot back: No. Nor would I choose a post menopausal woman, a woman born female but without a womb or an infertile woman, like the one who needs a surrogate - is she not a woman for needing a surrogate?

Fair enough Labobo, but would a TW even be on the shortlist?
A post menopausal woman could still be a option in some circumstances, a Transwoman never could.

I would just reframe the question as “should a couple needing egg donation/surrogacy approach a fertile woman or a fertile transwoman?” to avoid the fertility sleight-of-hand.

@jj1968

Should a 10 year old trans girl, who in every way looks like a girl, be forced to use spaces where men have their penis exposed?

If a ten year old boy wants to use a female-only facility should his adults let him or say no and explain that it wouldn't be fair to all the girls?

Then you find out why he wants to go in the female facility and see how you can solve his problem without impinging on a group of women and girls.

@jj1968

Should a masculine appearing woman have to prove what sex she was born before she can enter women's toilets and changing rooms?

Masculine appearing women use women's toilets and changing rooms all the time and have done for years.

Most women do not look like Kim Kardashian or Taylor Swift.

A lot of women have some combination of being flat-chested, barrel-shaped, wear clothes that could be men's like baggy jeans and a fleece, don't wear make up, have short hair, don't always smile sweetly, are tall for a woman, have a hairy face, have rough skin, have massive hands.

If a woman is so masculine looking that other women might mistake her for a man she will usually go out of her way to make the other women feel comfortable by doing something to signify that she is female. This is normal already.

In the highly unlikely situation that someone really really thought she was a bloke she could show her driving licence or other id that she would no doubt be carrying as this kind of thing would happen a lot. Except it doesn't anywhere today.

No changes required to the current system.

People who are diagnosed with eating disorders often say they feel grossly overweight. Why is weight loss surgery not offered as a treatment for those feelings?

Why should women always stand aside for men?

Actually no, why do men think females should stand aside for them.

JJ is perhaps illustrating the best question of all. Which is, why will TRAs not answer very straightforward questions that are put to them.

@jj1968

Should shop assistants, security guards and changing room attendants be required to establish what genitals people had at birth before they can be permitted access to toilets and changing rooms?

And how would they do this?

I like this game.

We have had sex segregated facilities and services for years without needing knicker inspectors at the doors. We can continue exactly as we are.

If you really genuinely look and move like a woman then nobody will notice so long as you keep the act up all the time you are in there so that would be a non-issue.

Your skirt-lifting plan would only now be required at the door if males change behaviour and start trying to go into the ladies loads by insisting that they are women. Even then you would simply challenge the men and check their driving licence or passport. Oooh, except if they had somehow been allowed to show the opposite sex on their document. Then that would be awkward, yes, but only if the male in question is trying to bulldoze his way into a space he knows he isn't allowed to be. Generally males don't do that. It's a social contract people are used to following.

Can a woman identify as a transwoman and take a space set aside for an lgbtq representative on a panel to advise organisations on lgbtq issues?

If you took 100 babies (hypothetically of course!) off to an isolated island and raised them in a completely gender neutral environment (names, hairstyles, clothes, pronouns, toys etc), how would a 'transchild' express to others that they were trans or 'born in the wrong body'?

Why does a group of males have the right to identify into the category of “women”, and thus spaces and opportunities set aside for that group, but the pre-standing members of that group have no counter-right to veto such redefinition and admission?

”We are like you, we are coming in” ✅

			vs

”You are not like us, you are not coming in” ❌

Why do only one party have the right to self-determination and access protocols?

Are boundaries an intrinsically bigoted concept?

Is this asymmetry with regard to self-determination vs disambiguation rights not an exact mirror of wider misogyny within patriarchy, in that women are culturally expected to be submissive and accommodating to male demands?

Why is a woman’s “NO” considered hate speech?

Okay next question, is the risk to women from a 10 year old trans girl using women's spaces greater than the risk to a 10 year old trans girl were she expected to use men's spaces?

Any young child or vulnerable person, including a ten year old of either sex, is safer in a women-only space or in a mixed sex space than in a men-only space.

The single sex space is safer for anyone because men are much more violent and predatory than women.

The mixed sex space is safer because adult women tend be vigilant to protect children from predatory men.

Mixed sex facilities are more dangerous for women and girls than female only spaces. This is because males are much much more violent and predatory than females.

None of this means that females should lose female only spaces.

Making all spaces mixed sex does make life safer for vulnerable males, that is true, but it also inevitably makes all females more vulnerable.

Provision of mixed sex or some kind of supervised space for vulnerable males in addition to female-only spaces would keep the most people safe.

There is considerable evidence that when everything is mixed sex then more women are hurt than males are saved.

Every single culture on the planet keeps women separate from men for some things. Men teach boys to respect women's privacy and dignity by not busting into those spaces even though they physically could if they tried.

Currently some males seem to think they have found a loophole and are seeking to exploit it to come into the female spaces. Women have noticed and are saying no. The men are starting to notice too and they are saying no too.

To reduce the risk to vulnerable males a campaign directed at men to reduce violence towards others would be good. Building design to make it harder for men to predate undetected would also be useful.

If a 12yo girl says she feels like she is a boy should adults

(a) Assume it is a medical problem. Affirm that she is a boy if she says so. Tell her it is now possible to change sex so she will grow up to be a man not a woman.

(b) Assume it is a mental health problem. Explain that humans cannot change sex. Explore what she believes girl/woman means that leads her to think she is not one.

Too long to be a Staniland.

DS1 would shoot back: No. Nor would I choose a post menopausal woman, a woman born female but without a womb or an infertile woman, like the one who needs a surrogate - is she not a woman for needing a surrogate?

Ask him why a trans woman is necessarily infertile, whatever made him think that? Does he think they are born without a womb by pure chance? Show up the absurdity. And possibly ask him how they can father children if they are infertile. It's bullshit sophistry and he knows it.

Individual females being infertile is not the same as all trans "women". And they mostly aren't infertile. How many females born without a womb are able to impregnate women?

If Transmen are men, why can they not inherit male peerage nor join the Masons? If Transwomen are women, why are they entitled to those male priviledges that Transmen are excluded from? What is the reason behind this anomaly?

Following on from the fact that transwomen can claim male peerages as women, does that mean all women would be entitled to them? If not, why not?

@Ereshkigalangcleg

Individual females being infertile is not the same as all trans "women". And they mostly aren't infertile. How many females born without a womb are able to impregnate women?

Exactly. It’s faulty logic to presume loss of/absent function equals a category change. My sister has cerebral palsy. She spent much of her childhood mobilising on all fours. Now she uses a wheelchair. Her inability to walk upright does not mean she is no longer human, or became a cat

Are gay men who don't want to have sex with any transmen transphobic bigots?

We have had sex segregated facilities and services for years without needing knicker inspectors at the doors. We can continue exactly as we are.

Cool, trans people will keep using toilets inline with their gender identity as they have done for decades then.

Should a trans man, with a penis, have the right to undress and shower in a communal changing room with teenage girls?

Well done jj, after hours wasting everyone's time, and dozens of feeble attempts, you've actually managed to ask an interesting question.

I'll have to think about that one - my instinct says 'yes', as she's female. I'd like to read what others think.

Now, jj, what's your answer to the original Staniland question?

@jj1968

We have had sex segregated facilities and services for years without needing knicker inspectors at the doors. We can continue exactly as we are.

Cool, trans people will keep using toilets inline with their gender identity as they have done for decades then.

That is not how most trans people have behaved for decades. If it were then there would have been a debate for decades.

That said, any trans people who pass could indeed continue to go in without anyone even noticing.

As for the non-passing majority, venues and individuals can continue to ask them to use other toilets if they try to use the ladies.

Mind you, it will continue to be rare to need this kind of intervention because most trans people will continue to use mixed sex or their own sex toilets.

Would you try to go into the ladies if you knew it was supposed to be single sex and you knew people would likely know you are not a female?