Trans campaigners want to abolish prisons - wonder why?

[stumbledin]

... Mermaids, Stonewall, Be:North, CliniQ, Consortium, Galop, Gendered Intelligence, GIRES, and Sparkle have partnered together with the aim of creating “lasting change for trans communities in healthcare and criminal justice systems.” The working group published three “community engagement reports” for their TRANSforming Futures series after listening to “a diverse range of trans people in England.” Continue reading The Prison System is Transphobic and Must be Abolished, Say Transgender Activists | Women Are Human.

... Participants are calling to abolish prisons, explaining that “work on abolition directly confronts criminalisation of trans communities.”

... The report does not provide suggestions on how to manage such violent and sexual predators as murderers, rapists and child rapists in the absence of a prison system. ...

(So male prisoners who have been found guilty of violence against women can now trans(fer) to a women's prison, and in the future not do any prison time at all. Really??)

Info from www.womenarehuman.com/prisons-are-transphobic-and-must-be-abolished-say-transgender-activists/

Link to the actual pamphlet www.transformingfuturespartnership.co.uk/criminal-justice funded by the National Lottery Community Fund.

There you have the difference between men and women - women know that at times we rely on the State (police & judiciary) to keep women and children safe from predators . Male dominated groups fail to understand that.

A report by a group of “trans equality focused organisations working together” is calling for prisons to be abolished, and demonizing women who support “increased reporting and prosecution of violence.”

Just fucking wow. Who do us absolute bitches think we are eh, expecting justice.

Isnt calling the police if something happens what sone activists suggest we do as opposed to keep sex segregation?

Prison is surely punishment and rehabilitation I mean its not there to deliberately cause problems for trans people. Its really not a personal attack

I have seen this rhetoric by different activists not just trans activists. There seems to be a movement gathering groups together.

I have yet to see alternatives in how people are punished, or deterred from committing crime. It seems to be completely idealistic and I am not surprised to see who is pushing the agenda.

directly confronts criminalisation of trans communities

What actions might lead to criminalisation?

What actions might lead to criminalisation

I thought it never happened anyway? I mean the ones in prison are ones that are usually allowed to be assumed not to be fir real anyway? ( again according to some activists )

Prisons are dreadful and I think they are actively harmful places that should be abolished. If there was any credible other alternative. But there isn't.

If I was in charge of the world there would be houses for offenders, very normal, staffed with experienced, knowledgeable staff who would manage a completely healthy and growth-oriented home which the men (and very few women) would live in. Work, college and all sorts of lovely activities based on trying to stop recidivism would happen. Counselling, AA, crafts and yoga... and so on. In the case of sex offenders these homes would be in communities far from everyone else and they'd be for life. It would be eye-wateringly expensive.

This DOESN'T EXIST and so offenders have to go somewhere. Prison is where.

@persistentwoman

There you have the difference between men and women - women know that at times we rely on the State (police & judiciary) to keep women and children safe from predators . Male dominated groups fail to understand that.

You might want to tell that to Angela Davis and the many other feminists who have called for prison abolition.

Prisons are dreadful and I think they are actively harmful places that should be abolished. If there was any credible other alternative. But there isn't.

That's the pity and the truth.

There are better arguments for abolishing prisons than their impact on transgender individuals.

The weaponising of a possible transgender identity by certain violent male prisoners in order to access female spaces makes connecting campaigning for prison abolition with campaigning for 'trans rights' unseemly at best.

Trans is the new get out of jail free card.

Ah. Sodding carceral feminists.

Women are just such a total pita aren't they :(

The prison reform trust is a good resource for anyone interested in actual prison reform.

There is a focus on the male estate versus the female estate in terms of. Why they are there, background, danger to the public etc etc.

I’d noticed on Twitter recently that this is the latest tack they’re taking. Anarchists are beginning to jump in on the trans debate.

I rather assumed this was in response to the rather compelling case made by women that putting rapists, murderers and other violent men in the women’s estate is an utterly inhumane and illogical thing to do.

It’s very slow and our political and state institutions are so embroiled that it’s very hard work, but I think it’s a sign that we are beginning to demonstrate that our position is the central ground. However much extremist transactivists (not all trans etc) try to paint themselves as occupying the right side of history, their extremism is becoming more obvious as more rational groups begin to push back and they find themselves allied with groups that represent positions that are unlikely ever to be mainstream in western democratised society.

Compare and contrast with the attitude the trans activists community encourages towards hate crime reporting.

There's a phrase we use in the criminal justice system 'cannot be safely managed in the community', wtf are we meant to do without prisons, I see they don't give a shit about how harshly the CJ system has treated women for years and weren't campaigning for abolition of custodial sentences before.
Ridiculous.

@EachBleachBlairTrump

There's a phrase we use in the criminal justice system 'cannot be safely managed in the community', wtf are we meant to do without prisons, I see they don't give a shit about how harshly the CJ system has treated women for years and weren't campaigning for abolition of custodial sentences before. Ridiculous.

"Necessary for the protection of the public that they remain in custody"

It's not quite as simple as identifying as a woman and being transferred to the women's estate. The guidelines are quite strict.

Is it akin to ‘defund the police’ in America?

There are discussions worth having around prison reform in general and rehabilitation etc, but there seems to be a rather loopy extremist version that peddles the idea of total abolition of prisons. These sort of proponents seem to have zero understanding of human nature and behaviour - really violent and dangerous offenders are not the sort of people that any kind of civilised or sane society want in their midst.

It's better to focus on many of the underlying issues that might contribute to antisocial and criminal behaviour in the first place so that less people find themselves getting into a life of crime or stuck in a criminal justice system that seems to exacerbate such behaviour. These kinds of long term measures will serve to reduce prison sentences and prison populations in general.
However, there is always going to a percentage of people (and by that I mean mostly men, however they identify) who are an extreme risk to society due to their violent and aggressive nature. They absolutely cannot be trusted not to hurt or kill other people, especially women and children.

The type of 'anti carceral feminism' that infests certain academic and legal circles seems completely captured by queer theory. I attended a public event a few weeks ago that was eye opening. I really recommend women attend these sort of seminars and listen to what is being said and ask questions because it has to be seen to be believed how bat shit crazy some of this stuff is. The speaker was talking about media reporting around Karen White (boo hoo so sad). She was making this bizarre association that women objecting to trans prisoners being housed in female prisons due to the nature of their crimes and sex is the same as homosexuals being imprisoned in the past because they were deemed to be a perversion and risk to society and also black men being unfairly imprisoned. All couched in queer theory phrasing but implying that trans prisoners (like Karen White - that's the only example she used) are being unfairly monstered by media and society.

Oh and also the media printing pictures of trans women who are murderers, sex offenders etc - you know what she called that? Visual deadnaming. So we shouldn't be showing the public the pictures of trans women criminals because..... You know.... We can tell.... 😉 And this is a bad thing because it causes hurty feelings.

A number of woke bros were attending this event and gushing what a great talk this was and how much they agreed with it all. It was sickening how little regard was given to vulnerable women in prisons.

Really... we need more women to attend these events and see for themselves what's taking place in these closed circles. These sort of academic and legal people sit in their ivory towers divorced from reality and sanity, their brains soaked in queer theory and they find ways to push their ideas into policy and legislation. These so called professionals need their ideas to be robustly challenged instead of the usual circle jerk of everyone agreeing with them.

There are clearly some very serious psychological and mental issues going on with anyone who wants to see prisons abolished.
It really is that simple.

I'm going to say what I always say on these threads. The prison system is not just about punishment and/or rehabilitation; it is also about preventing mob violence and public order offences in the aftermath of a crime by removing the perpetrator from civil society for a period of time.

People underestimate this third purpose at their peril. If justice is not seen to be done, then the public will do it themselves, and that inevitably means mob violence, vigilantism, riots, and chaos.

I'm getting to the point with these activists and campaigners where I am convinced that half of them are trying to destabilise society and the other half of them have some sort of deathwish. None of this helps people genuinely struggling with GD; all this does is turn society against transpeople.

@MindtheMinotaur

Compare and contrast with the attitude the trans activists community encourages towards hate crime reporting.

Exactly. Also the enthusiasm with which Stonewall call the police on women who demonstrate outside their conferences (they called the police on a group of us for protesting in favour of lesbian rights on Lesbian Visibility Day - you couldn’t make it up!) and Julia Long being physically removed from at least one event by the police for the apparent crime of being a known GC lesbian who asks awkward questions.

@andyoldlabour

There are clearly some very serious psychological and mental issues going on with anyone who wants to see prisons abolished. It really is that simple.

BLM wants that too.

@PolPotNoodle "It's not quite as simple as identifying as a woman and being transferred to the women's estate. The guidelines are quite strict."

And yet still transwomen assault women in women's prisons.