Trans campaigners want to abolish prisons - wonder why?

[stumbledin]

... Mermaids, Stonewall, Be:North, CliniQ, Consortium, Galop, Gendered Intelligence, GIRES, and Sparkle have partnered together with the aim of creating “lasting change for trans communities in healthcare and criminal justice systems.” The working group published three “community engagement reports” for their TRANSforming Futures series after listening to “a diverse range of trans people in England.” Continue reading The Prison System is Transphobic and Must be Abolished, Say Transgender Activists | Women Are Human.

... Participants are calling to abolish prisons, explaining that “work on abolition directly confronts criminalisation of trans communities.”

... The report does not provide suggestions on how to manage such violent and sexual predators as murderers, rapists and child rapists in the absence of a prison system. ...

(So male prisoners who have been found guilty of violence against women can now trans(fer) to a women's prison, and in the future not do any prison time at all. Really??)

Info from www.womenarehuman.com/prisons-are-transphobic-and-must-be-abolished-say-transgender-activists/

Link to the actual pamphlet www.transformingfuturespartnership.co.uk/criminal-justice funded by the National Lottery Community Fund.

The more I think about this, the more I think they should crack on and spread the news widely. No more prison for murderers, sex offenders, gang members, extortionists, DV perpetrators, paedophiles or anyone.

Can't wait to see how the BBC cover this one

Yes, Persistantwoman, the old phrase ‘give then enough ripe’ springs to mind. This could be that little bit of extra length we’ve been waiting for. It’ll never gain any political traction, as apart from a few in especially safe but fringe-y seats, what prospective MP could possibly see it as a winning campaign strategy? It’s a dead end. Any party that advocated for it would face electoral oblivion.

@Rubidium

Why are Mermaids, a children's charity, interested in abolishing prisons?

They aren't. A group have trans charities including Mermaids have come together to carry out research on trans people's experience in healthcare, the criminal justice system etc. This involved surveys, soliciting expert opinion and focus groups of trans people and writing reports based on the findings. The report on the criminal justice system found that some trans people they talked to supported moving towards prison abolition, and some didn't. Unsuprisingly they had a range of views.

So Mermaid's aren't interested in abolishing prisons, as far as we know. They are merely partners in some research which found that some trans people in a focus group said they supported prison abolition.

But also in Europe the legacy of militant communist organising are things like the NHS, the welfare state, the Equal Pay Act, universal education etc.

No, that is the legacy of enlightenment thinking. Militant communist organisations have derailed arguments for equality. People need to be able to listen to nuanced arguments, but they won’t do that if people like YOU jj misrepresent those arguments.

@merrymouse

But also in Europe the legacy of militant communist organising are things like the NHS, the welfare state, the Equal Pay Act, universal education etc.

No, that is the legacy of enlightenment thinking. Militant communist organisations have derailed arguments for equality. People need to be able to listen to nuanced arguments, but they won’t do that if people like YOU jj misrepresent those arguments.

I'm sorry but your just wrong. By today's standards the Labour Party as it existed prior to Blair would be considered far left. Many of the groups involved in fighting for universal healthcare and the welfare state were radical communists and socialists. Most workplace rights were won by trade unions often led by and made up of many communists and socialists.

It was enlightened liberals who fought against the Factory Act which restricted child labour to 12 hours a day based on the idea that the hidden hand of the market must never be touched by Governments. The idea of universal healthcare or a welfare state was unthinkable until communist ideas swept across Europe terrifying the ruling class into acting. Communism was a huge global movement which, whilst ultimately unsuccessful at the point of revolution, forced pretty much every state in the world into concessions to working class demands. The idea that these things were won by a bunch of enlightened liberals is rewriting history completely. They were won by the organised working class fighting for their own interests which included the collectivisation of resources to the benefit of all.

Please let's try to keep on topic. I want to hear more about these glorious proposals about murderers and the rest no longer being in prison

There is zero need to get worried about this, trans identifying people will never succeed in abolishing prisons. They may however succeed in ensuring males can pretend to identify as women in order to transfer to women’s prisons, and this is why self id should be abolished.

DD23 has just come out of a 15 month prison sentence (‘explosives’ found to be fireworks - found ‘not guilty’ but kept locked up on remand due to Covid court backlogs - he’s half Turkish and had a Koran in his room and a history of psychosis - now he is released and recovered) - my son was at a hardcore male cat B prison and he became friends with and helped a black Trans woman who was on his wing - he is intelligent and empathetic - he said half the wing left her alone and protected her, the other half were horrendous - not ok!

I'm sorry but your just wrong.

Likewise.

Concepts of equality and human rights (including feminism) have their roots in the enlightenment, not militant communism, which is more recent and somehow never actually gets around to equality for people who aren’t male.

But sorry, I’m interrupting your attempt to derail and misrepresent.

All prisons? Maybe some people are nervous about being sent to one...

What about!!! We have male prison and female prisons. Why not a prison just for transgender people?! I would support that!

my son was at a hardcore male cat B prison and he became friends with and helped a black Trans woman who was on his wing - he is intelligent and empathetic - he said half the wing left her alone and protected her, the other half were horrendous - not ok!

It is an issue for the men's prison service to ensure all men are safe within their prisons.

Isn't this a bit in the vein of defund the police. Are we transporting everything from the US now?

jj1968

I think you will find that the introduction of the welfare state and NHS under the Attlee government was anything but communism/radical socialism. Attlee came from a middle class family, went to Oxford and was a barrister. Attlee favoured a mixed economy, something which carried on during the Wilson years.

Looks like it. I remember when we used to laugh at the daft things they came out with...

Women aren't safe from male people anywhere anymore. Even on a forum like this. To want to abolish prisons without dealing with the spectrum of male entitlement that includes violence is naive and dangerous.

So no prisons. Where do they intend to place murderers, rapists and people reported for hate crimes?

These people haven't been told 'NO' enough...

jj did you actually read any of the book you linked to?

I was quoting your post! And not assuming anyone's gender 😁

Ignoring the whole thing of the people pushing for this, why would anyone think that abolishing prisons would work?

I agree that the prison system needs looking at a reforming but you cannot abolish them all together. Where would people who are dangerous go?

People would be happy to just open the doors and let murders, rapists and paedophiles trot off into the sunset?

I think Stonewall, Mermaids (sorry jj but Mermainds have never played a passive supporting role in anything. Actually, maybe in matters concerning the safety of every child, not just a trans child, they're pretty quite on those matters) and their chums may have tried to bite off more than they can chew.

I mean if you wanted to attract the attention of and piss off John and Maureen EveryDay screaming about how prison should be abolished would be an excellent place to start. This is hardly a path that tells your audience you've everyone's best interests at heart.

Stanford it could be the natural conclusion of doing away with safe spaces. Quite literally.

Why are the people who want prisons abolished and for the actual violent people to be out in the world the same people who feel 'unsafe' and that words are 'literally violent' when others have a different opinion or worldview to theirs?

I wonder if the prisoners themselves were in favour of this? Hey, let's ask kids if they want to abolish school.