Trans campaigners want to abolish prisons - wonder why?

[stumbledin]

... Mermaids, Stonewall, Be:North, CliniQ, Consortium, Galop, Gendered Intelligence, GIRES, and Sparkle have partnered together with the aim of creating “lasting change for trans communities in healthcare and criminal justice systems.” The working group published three “community engagement reports” for their TRANSforming Futures series after listening to “a diverse range of trans people in England.” Continue reading The Prison System is Transphobic and Must be Abolished, Say Transgender Activists | Women Are Human.

... Participants are calling to abolish prisons, explaining that “work on abolition directly confronts criminalisation of trans communities.”

... The report does not provide suggestions on how to manage such violent and sexual predators as murderers, rapists and child rapists in the absence of a prison system. ...

(So male prisoners who have been found guilty of violence against women can now trans(fer) to a women's prison, and in the future not do any prison time at all. Really??)

Info from www.womenarehuman.com/prisons-are-transphobic-and-must-be-abolished-say-transgender-activists/

Link to the actual pamphlet www.transformingfuturespartnership.co.uk/criminal-justice funded by the National Lottery Community Fund.

@Zinco

"Prisons are unjust let's abolish them"

It's certainly strange that some on the harder left don't think through the real-world consequences of what they are suggesting.

I don't know. Maybe they think, well if only you put all their socialist doctrine into practice, then you would have a paradise, and no need for prisons anymore. Everyone would be well behaved. Rather than, crimes go unpunished causing lots of misery for the population and people fairly quickly turn vigilante and start dealing out the punishments themselves.

The Purge is coming. 😳

[merrymouse]I don't know the comparative statistics, but there were no violent attacks on the centre of Government specifically designed to overthrow a presidential election.

I don't believe you can argue that one riot is much more worrying than months of rioting.

Nope.

It's great if Biden condemned antifa at certain times. I was thinking of the debates, where he was dismissive about it when it came up.

This is the background to your claim about Kamala Harris... She tweeted support for an organisation that attempts to redress inequities in the justice system for people who cannot afford bail.

Kamala was tweeting specifically to help get "protestors" out on bail. So that's practical support for them to continue rioting.

It's certainly not worse than what Trump did on January 6th.

Trump wasn't even close to the legal standard for inciting violence. He explicitly called for peaceful protest.

I know this is a bit of a derail, but but ill thought out comments about BLM and Antifa harm feminists fighting for sex based rights.

Your own comment appeared to downplay BLM protest violence.

Obviously there are groups on both the left and right, that are violent, and are a concern. But I don't see why months of rioting should be downplayed.

I don't believe you can argue that one riot is much more worrying than months of rioting.

I think I can when the goal was to change the result of a presidential election.

Trump wasn't even close to the legal standard for inciting violence. He explicitly called for peaceful protest.

He was standing in front of a crowd of armed people who had made their intentions completely clear over many weeks. He told them that fraud had been committed on a massive scale and that he had in fact won the election and that they had to go to the Capitol to fight or they would lose their country. If you don't think he understood what would happen, you must believe that he is deeply, deeply stupid.

@persistentwoman

There you have the difference between men and women - women know that at times we rely on the State (police & judiciary) to keep women and children safe from predators . Male dominated groups fail to understand that.

No we don't, delusional and/or clinically stupid people fail to understand that. I know this is Mumsnet and all men are evil but don't make the mistake of thinking we support the trans ideology.

Thankfully this is one absurd idea that won't ever happen no matter how much tripe they post on twitter.

@Whatsnewpussyhat

Trans is the new get out of jail free card.

My thought too

@andyoldlabour

jj1968

I think you will find that the introduction of the welfare state and NHS under the Attlee government was anything but communism/radical socialism. Attlee came from a middle class family, went to Oxford and was a barrister. Attlee favoured a mixed economy, something which carried on during the Wilson years.

I think you'll find Attlee was head of a party whose constitution stated:

To secure for the workers by hand or by brain the full fruits of their industry and the most equitable distribution thereof that may be possible upon the basis of the common ownership of the means of production, distribution and exchange, and the best obtainable system of popular administration and control of each industry or service

Old Labour my arse, two bit Tory more like.

Prison abolition. Brilliant. TRAs should definitely pour all their energies into this eminently sensible suggestion. Go for it, guys!

@CuriousaboutSamphire

jj did you actually read any of the book you linked to?

Yes although it was some years ago. As I recall she discusses how the idea of society without prisons is unimaginable to many people and the reasons such attitudes came about. She goes onto explain how prisons became sites of racialised state violence and the huge amount of damage done to people of colour and women by the criminal justice system. She discusses some of the history of both prisons and the prison abolitionist movement, talks about how prisons perpetuate violence rather than rehabilitate and then gives some examples of how we could get rid of them, and what some alternatives might look like.

@Vermeil

Yes, Persistantwoman, the old phrase ‘give then enough ripe’ springs to mind. This could be that little bit of extra length we’ve been waiting for. It’ll never gain any political traction, as apart from a few in especially safe but fringe-y seats, what prospective MP could possibly see it as a winning campaign strategy? It’s a dead end. Any party that advocated for it would face electoral oblivion.

If a university decided to do some research on what for example young black men thought about the criminal justice system and some of them called for prisons to be abolished in a focus group would that be the same as the university calling for prisons to be abolished?

Does anyone on this thread understand how research works?

Prison reform trust is good in the UK if anyone is interested.

You can donate etc if it's something you feel strongly about.

www.prisonreformtrust.org.uk/

This is so typical and pathetic. How can these people claim to be so oppressed when they're constantly being pandered to? Oppressed people don't get their ideas promoted at all. Makes no sense, but then again the whole gender/trans thing is nonsensical anyway. It all falls apart when you apply some logic to it. Like someone else said, women's prisons are the ones that should be abolished considering most women are in for non violent crimes AND they're still the primary caregivers when it comes to children. The black women who support this are doing it because it panders to black men and they're way more interested in "protecting" them even though those men don't care about black women and children. It's as simple as that.

@notyourhandmaid

Why are the people who want prisons abolished and for the actual violent people to be out in the world the same people who feel 'unsafe' and that words are 'literally violent' when others have a different opinion or worldview to theirs?

Such a good point.

Words are "literal violence", but actual real life violence isn't apparently. Laughable. Rapists and murderers deserve everything they get. These males are wanting to get away with all sorts of crimes so that's where this abolishment crap comes from. I wish the UK would stop its obsession with America.

The black women who support this are doing it because it panders to black men and they're way more interested in "protecting" them even though those men don't care about black women and children. It's as simple as that.

Very revealing thread this about some of the attitudes prevalent in gender critical circles.

@jj1968

The black women who support this are doing it because it panders to black men and they're way more interested in "protecting" them even though those men don't care about black women and children. It's as simple as that.

Very revealing thread this about some of the attitudes prevalent in gender critical circles.

How's it a thread? It's a comment. Black women are putting themselves on the front line to "protect" men when those same men wouldn't do the same thing for them. Domestic violence and murder is extremely high in the black community.

Keep going.

You keep going. You're the one picking and choosing what to listen to. I don't pander to the mens rights mob.

[quote NiceGerbil]Prison reform trust is good in the UK if anyone is interested.

You can donate etc if it's something you feel strongly about.

www.prisonreformtrust.org.uk/[/quote]
Thank you for that link @NiceGerbil

jj1968

If you do a bit of research, I think you will find that DandyMandy has said nothing which isn't true and well documented. Both "Drill" music and Hiphop glorify misogynistic behaviour.

Some more information on prisons (from fpfw): the vast majority of sex offending is committed by males. There are over 80,000 male prisoners in England and Wales. Close to 1 in every 5 male prisoners have been convicted of a sexual offence. That’s about 14,000 male sex offenders; almost 20% of the male prison population). In contrast very few female prisoners have been convicted of sex offending. Fewer than 150 women in prison today have been convicted of sex offending. That’s just 3% of the female prisoner population of around 4000 women.

He told them that fraud had been committed on a massive scale and that he had in fact won the election and that they had to go to the Capitol to fight or they would lose their country. If you don't think he understood what would happen, you must believe that he is deeply, deeply stupid.

What would Trump have to gain by deliberately trying to incite violence at that point?

The protesters weren't 1% of the force that would be needed to genuinely "overturn the system". If that's what they wanted, they got absolutely nowhere.

@andyoldlabour

jj1968

If you do a bit of research, I think you will find that DandyMandy has said nothing which isn't true and well documented. Both "Drill" music and Hiphop glorify misogynistic behaviour.

Thank you. Some people are just desperate to imply racism every chance they get. Some black women campaigned against rap/hip hop in the 90s and were hated for it by black men. I know this is a bit off topic, but I thought the point needed to be made.

Oh no. Another jj show.