Help end medical misogyny. Sign our petition.

Help end medical misogyny.
Sign our petition.

Sign the petition

Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Allison Bailey to sue Stonewall -thread 2

999 replies

OvaHere · 12/02/2021 10:25

Previous thread www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3950877-Allison-Bailey-to-sue-Stonewall

Allison's website allisonbailey.co.uk

Statement

First and foremost, I hope that my legal action will bring me justice. I also hope that it can stop Stonewall from policing free speech via its Diversity Champions scheme.

Stonewall have signed up many companies, public bodies, voluntary sector organisations and government departments to their manifesto and their value system regarding trans rights. What is called Stonewall Law. Without most of the public realising it, a large swathe of British employers have signed up to the Stonewall value system. It has done this by trying to silence and vilify women like me who have genuine concerns about how its approach to trans inclusivity conflicts with the protections, safety and dignity of women, girls, children and LGB people.

We cannot achieve a just outcome for everyone while Stonewall are free to threaten women like me with the loss of our livelihoods and reputations. Stonewall must be held to account. I intend to do just that.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
21
WeAreJackieWeaver · 13/02/2021 22:25

Read the moderating principles pinned to the top of the board Helen

yourhairiswinterfire · 13/02/2021 22:26

Is that actual official mumsnet policy?

It's in the Talk Guidelines pinned at the top of the FWR board:

Likewise, many feminists are affronted by the term ‘cis’ and ‘terf’, so using these terms will make civil debate less likely. As we’ve said, context is everything – but it’s likely that going forward our moderation team will delete these expressions.

IrenetheQuaint · 13/02/2021 22:26

Yes, I have seen various comments from intersex people who really hate being appropriated by trans rights activists. But I'm sure there is a wide spread of opinions on this issue, just as there is within the LGB community (and indeed the straight community).

BuntingEllacott · 13/02/2021 22:28

Is that actual official mumsnet policy?

Helen8220 the guidelines are pinned at the top of FWR aka Feminism Chat. If you're new, it might be worth reading them. And yes, the use of cis can earn you a strike, just as the use of the correct sex pronouns for specific males depending on their personal self image. I'm not in favour of banning terms myself, but it's a quid pro quo thing MNHQ introduced when they wrote the guidelines. I'd much rather explain why cis is offensive and ask that it not be used, and let the response stand. But you know, Genderists do love their control mechanisms, so what can you do?

jj1968 · 13/02/2021 22:30

but it's a quid pro quo thing MNHQ introduced when they wrote the guidelines. I'd much rather explain why cis is offensive and ask that it not be used, and let the response stand. But you know, Genderists do love their control mechanisms, so what can you do?

Haha, trans people secretly control mumsnet now as well.

Thanks Helen btw, good to see some broader views on here..

Tibtom · 13/02/2021 22:31

@nauticant

I remember when this thread was about Allison Bailey. Now it's about someone else. What a shame.
A metaphor for something....
IrenetheQuaint · 13/02/2021 22:31

The MN moderating principles are worth a read, Helen8220 - they were hammered out after much conflict and anger from both sides and are (I think) really well considered.

Impatiens · 13/02/2021 22:32

Get a room thread you two

BuntingEllacott · 13/02/2021 22:35

Sorry, jj, I was talking to Helen. Do we have a crossed line?

yourhairiswinterfire · 13/02/2021 22:35

Haha, trans people secretly control mumsnet now as well.

A lot of TRAs certainly love monitoring here. I've seen it for myself. They share screenshots elsewhere and encourage mass reporting of threads and posters.

Nothappytohelp · 13/02/2021 22:37

It's so heartening to see Allison's crowdfunder grow from the vast numbers of donations (which seem to be averaging around £10-£20). So many individuals standing in support of her. There's even a donation and lovely message of support from David Bell.

BuntingEllacott · 13/02/2021 22:39

Brilliant. I had three messages on Messenger over this last week saying they had donated - a humanist, a christian and a primary school teacher. This sounds like the start of a joke...

HPFA · 13/02/2021 22:40

As far as there is an official definition of "cis" this is it.

Cisgender (sometimes cissexual, often abbreviated to simply cis) is a term for people whose gender identity matches their sex assigned at birth. For example, someone who identifies as a woman and was assigned female at birth is a cisgender woman.

It's not a neutral term since it implies that the person described has a "gender idenity", a concept that many people reject. If you really want a term to distinguish between women and transwomen you could try the phrase "natal women". I'm personally happy with that one but many aren't so maybe just respect the way people want to be described.

Impatiens · 13/02/2021 22:40

There's even a donation and lovely message of support from David Bell.

That's a nice bit of solidarity - what happened/happening about his case?

SophocIestheFox · 13/02/2021 22:42

Love that David Bell donated.

All those fivers and tenners splashing into the pot. It’s really heartening.

BuntingEllacott · 13/02/2021 22:43

It does depend on reports, though. I generally only report spam trolls myself. As far as I'm concerned you could talked about my embodied soul too if you want and I'll treat it the same contempt as the concept of cis. It's your belief, you're free to hold it, just as you're free to be anti-lesbian. I don't have to play along. Funny that.

StillAWoman2 · 13/02/2021 22:45

It’s been lovely to see the support for Allison continue to trend on twitter and to continue to flow into her fighting fund today.

Sad to see how far a once respected organisation has fallen.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 13/02/2021 22:48

It’s been lovely to see the support for Allison continue to trend on twitter and to continue to flow into her fighting fund today.

It has.

OvaHere · 13/02/2021 22:49

Just had a look at her page. The donations have really rolled in today.

OP posts:
jj1968 · 13/02/2021 22:50

@BuntingEllacott

Sorry, jj, I was talking to Helen. Do we have a crossed line?
No it's just an internet message board where anyone can respond to a post.
Nothappytohelp · 13/02/2021 22:55

@OvaHere

Just had a look at her page. The donations have really rolled in today.
They have, haven't they. Hopefully seeing that and the #IstandwithAllisonBailey trending will be a well-deserved boost for her after what must have been an incredibly stressful week.
yourhairiswinterfire · 13/02/2021 22:55

@BuntingEllacott

Brilliant. I had three messages on Messenger over this last week saying they had donated - a humanist, a christian and a primary school teacher. This sounds like the start of a joke...
I've seen quite a few people only discover Allison today thanks to #IStandWithAllisonBailey trending. They all donated after seeing why, and spread the word. It's lovely.

Allison is amazing. It would have been so much easier for her to let this go, but she didn't. She's been slurred as a homophobe and transphobe. I saw her racially abused on Twitter, only to be told that she deserves it for being a ''terf'' when she asked for help identifying the vile prick. (Right side of history, eh). She had her crowd funder taken down with no explanation, and yet she still kept going.

I wish I had even a quarter of her courage 💪 Marvellous woman.

TalkingtoLangClegintheDark · 13/02/2021 22:58

Surely it's more that if an organisation signs up to a scheme which supports the idea that trans women are women, or that gay people should be able to get married or whatever, and gets the benefits of that scheme on terms or PR, increased LGBT clients etc then they should abide by it's principle? Which might means diciplining a high profile person in the organisation who has very publically spoken out against those values? And if they don't then they might not longer be considered eligible for the scheme?

Sorry, not meaning to continue the derail, but this from jj yesterday has just kept on bothering me... it’s classic TRA conflation of trans rights with gay rights, and burying the “outrageous” position underneath them“perfectly reasonable” position, but surely what this comes down to is advocating totalitarianism in the workplace, isn’t it?

In the first example it’s not about the right of a minority group to do something that the rest of society is able to do, as per championing gay marriage. It’s about mandated belief in an ideology, pure and simple. “An organisation that signs up to a scheme which supports the idea that TWAW”. Not the right of trans people to marry, to live free from harassment, to have the same access to healthcare/housing/support services as everyone else, etc; no, the idea that TWAW is what’s being promoted here.

An ideological belief. Being forced upon people employed in every sector under the sun. Nurses, police officers, bankers, teachers, check out assistants, lawyers, council workers, academics, and so on and so on... as well as students and schoolchildren... all being told they must not publicly dissent from this ideology on pain of losing their jobs, their ability to make a living at all if they are then blacklisted in their entire sector. Or, in the case of students and schoolchildren, on pain of being ostracised and bullied by their peers (or even accused of and possibly charged with a hate crime, if the CPS hadn’t been forced by a legal challenge to withdraw their odious guidance).

What kind of societies run along these lines? What kind of societies force people to believe an ideology, on pain of all kinds of punishments, actual genuine punishments if they don’t, if they say out loud they don’t?

What kind of person sees that as a desirable scenario? And would quite blatantly propose this model as a perfectly reasonable way for society to be run?

What an insight into how far some people will take this, if no one challenges them. Absolutely chilling.

OvaHere · 13/02/2021 23:00

She would make an interesting subject for a documentary or in-depth written piece one day I expect. From bits and pieces she's talked about I think she's led a very fascinating life.

OP posts:
TalkingtoLangClegintheDark · 13/02/2021 23:01

@BuntingEllacott

Brilliant. I had three messages on Messenger over this last week saying they had donated - a humanist, a christian and a primary school teacher. This sounds like the start of a joke...
Grin
Swipe left for the next trending thread