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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Allison Bailey to sue Stonewall -thread 2

999 replies

OvaHere · 12/02/2021 10:25

Previous thread www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3950877-Allison-Bailey-to-sue-Stonewall

Allison's website allisonbailey.co.uk

Statement

First and foremost, I hope that my legal action will bring me justice. I also hope that it can stop Stonewall from policing free speech via its Diversity Champions scheme.

Stonewall have signed up many companies, public bodies, voluntary sector organisations and government departments to their manifesto and their value system regarding trans rights. What is called Stonewall Law. Without most of the public realising it, a large swathe of British employers have signed up to the Stonewall value system. It has done this by trying to silence and vilify women like me who have genuine concerns about how its approach to trans inclusivity conflicts with the protections, safety and dignity of women, girls, children and LGB people.

We cannot achieve a just outcome for everyone while Stonewall are free to threaten women like me with the loss of our livelihoods and reputations. Stonewall must be held to account. I intend to do just that.

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Justhadathought · 12/02/2021 20:05

This is true, there is literally no homophobia at all in society since gay marriage was introduced. How dare LGBT supportive organisations still exist

Equal civil rights have been achieved, though. It's a bit like 'women only' short-lists; they've most likely had their day. You can't legislate against people's thoughts, feelings, choices.....Oh, hang on!

That's the thing with 'women's rights'. Because women now have equal rights in law, many people, especially younger people, don't seem to think that women need any protection now. We just move on to the next supposed civil rights movement.......

Justhadathought · 12/02/2021 20:06

...and yet everyone/all citizens now have equal rights in law.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 12/02/2021 20:13

But it's not just equalities policies and diversity training. It's their UK workplace equality index which has somehow become an important "official" thing where companies compete against each other to implement Stonewall policies best...

It's also the Stonewall name - sadly Stonewall is still synonymous with LGB liberation - can you imagine how bad it would look for a company to be expelled from their Diversity Champion scheme?

Yes, exactly. Corporate wokeshaming and peer pressure.

Mummyoflittledragon · 12/02/2021 20:18

Have just seen this thread and donated. Thank you.

LizzieSiddal · 12/02/2021 20:29

Thank you for all the hard work making this thread. Have managed to catch up and an so pleased the case will go ahead. I’ve donated.

NotFabulousDarling · 12/02/2021 20:35

Thanks Ova for this thread, was watching yesterday and just caught up. So glad it's going forward.

BettyFilous · 12/02/2021 20:53

I’m enjoying some Friday evening gardening. More power to your elbow Allison!

OvaHere · 12/02/2021 21:04

An update from Allison

Update #4

We prevailed. The hearing went very well indeed.

Stonewall and Garden Court Chambers argued that my case against them had no reasonable prospects of success and should be struck out. They failed. They argued that I should pay a deposit order on the same grounds. They failed. They argued that I should not be permitted to amend my claim to tidy up the legal basis for it. They failed.

Far from there being no reasonable grounds, as both Stonewall and Garden Court argued, the learned judge found that I have a good arguable case with more than reasonable prospects of success.

Every aspect of my case proceeds to a trial in June (1-10 June 2021).

The strike out applications against me actually turned out to strengthen my case, and some elements of the case that we had expected to have to wait until trial to resolve were in fact resolved in our favour this week.

My barrister Ben Cooper QC was brilliant. He stood in for my barrister, Ben Collins QC because he was required in the High Court. For Ben Cooper QC to have got to grips with the case as well as he did and then deliver the advocacy that he did with such skill is a testament to his brilliance and is in the best traditions of the bar. He was outstanding. The assistance Ben received from his junior Rachel Owusu-Agyei was equally invaluable and impressive. Behind the scenes, working on this case from the outset, was my solicitor Peter Daly, who worked tirelessly to pull this complex case together. He made himself available 24/7. I am incredibly grateful to them all.

A huge amount of work is ahead of us.

We still haven’t got all our disclosure from the Respondents. There are also questions about where the relevant documents are, what Stonewall and Garden Court will provide, and what we will need to ask other people to provide – and whether we need court orders for that. We also need to receive unredacted copies of the relevant documents from my Chambers. There are hundreds, if not thousands, of pages of documents to receive and review.

All of the parties have agreed to get together to discuss an agreed way forward on this, which I hope will happen next week.

Once we have done that, we then need to refine my case and point out precisely who was responsible for what happened, and why Stonewall and Garden Court Chambers are responsible for the actions of those people. These are complicated questions of fact and law.

Once that’s done we need to see what the Respondents say in response to that, and I need to prepare my witness statement. This is always an important document in any trial, but in the Employment Tribunal it is especially so.

The trial in June, is not very far off at all, given the amount of work to be done. But, given how things have gone this week, I am extremely hopeful.

Thank you to every single one of you who has supported me. Your encouragement, your donations, your messages of solidarity and support made this happen. I cannot tell you how much it means to me.

Onwards!

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jj1968 · 12/02/2021 21:05

@Justhadathought

This is true, there is literally no homophobia at all in society since gay marriage was introduced. How dare LGBT supportive organisations still exist

Equal civil rights have been achieved, though. It's a bit like 'women only' short-lists; they've most likely had their day. You can't legislate against people's thoughts, feelings, choices.....Oh, hang on!

That's the thing with 'women's rights'. Because women now have equal rights in law, many people, especially younger people, don't seem to think that women need any protection now. We just move on to the next supposed civil rights movement.......

So now women have equal rights in law you think feminist and women's organisations should just pack up and go home? I'd say there's a lot still to do, and the same applies to how LGB people are treated in society. You may not like them but Stonewall is the only real national charity for Lesbians, Gay men and Bisexuals. The provide valuable services which many LGB people have welcomed. I think it's somewhat arrogant that so many (usually straight) people think that should be taken away from LGB people just because they don't like their stance on trans rights.
OvaHere · 12/02/2021 21:09

I didn't realise that her QC Ben Cooper was standing in for someone else at short notice. He must be bloody good considering the great job he did.

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Dalyesque · 12/02/2021 21:13

Stonewall clearly does not stand for lesbians if we commit wrongthink jj

ArabellaScott · 12/02/2021 21:24

more than reasonable prospects of success.

Grin

Fab. Thanks, OvaHere, for all your tireless updates.

Will garden and send a card. Well done, Allison, fantastic!

jj1968 · 12/02/2021 21:24

@Dalyesque

Stonewall clearly does not stand for lesbians if we commit wrongthink jj
I wouldn't imagine they would stand for a gay man with far right views or someone bisexual who opposed gay marriage either. That doesn't mean they don't support gay/bi people.
CharlieParley · 12/02/2021 21:24

@DisgustedofManchester

Its an interesting dilema. If, for example, someone in GCC expressed homophobic views publicly about lesbians and Stonewall said that either GCC deal with that person or they would not be able to reference Stonewall recognition of their diversity and inclusion, would AB support her colleague's right to attack her sexuality in the workplace or expect her company to protect her?

Equally, isn't it up to GCC to decide whether that person has broken any terms of their employment enough to deserve disciplinary action or whether they would rather lose the Stonewall accreditation and leave the homophobe in place?

I can see why the case has gone to trial but now the onus is to prove damages by the claimant. Their reference to losing over 50% of earnings last year is irrelevant when most QCs lost income as court cases were delayed due to Covid. Reputational damage will be difficult when she is a founder of a group that HM opposition has labelled a hate group.

I hope no one settles.

Not an interesting dilemma at all, because
  1. Alison didn't express any phobic views in public and
  2. Articles 9 and 10 of the European Convention on Human Rights Freedom of thought, conscience and religion and Freedom of expression mean that you have quite a hurdle to overcome if you want to discriminate against someone at work for legal views expressed outside of work.
WarOnWomen · 12/02/2021 21:33

OvaHere Thank you for the update and all hard work to keep us updated throughout today.

MaudTheInvincible · 12/02/2021 21:37

Ah, that's a great update from Allison. Good to see!

OvaHere · 12/02/2021 21:38

You're all welcome. I've enjoyed the sofa and snack day tbh. Grin

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VioletAlder · 12/02/2021 21:41

Excellent work. Have popped out to do a spot more digging.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 12/02/2021 21:44

wouldn't imagine they would stand for a gay man with far right views or someone bisexual who opposed gay marriage either. That doesn't mean they don't support gay/bi people.

They don't support gay / lesbian people as they don't support same sex attraction.

thinkingaboutLangCleg · 12/02/2021 21:54

I’m helping to organise a close relative’s funeral so I needed something to lift my spirits, and this is it. Allison’s update is wonderful news. I’ve just donated again to celebrate.

SophocIestheFox · 12/02/2021 22:02

It’s also important to remember there’s a lot of clear water between “wouldn’t stand for” someone and “would attempt to induce someone’s employers to get rid of an employee they don’t agree with using thinly veiled threats”.

This case is the latter.

persistentwoman · 12/02/2021 22:02

So pleased to see Alison's updates. Even more pleased to see so many women - lesbian, straight, BAME, white and the rest being true allies to this courageous woman (along with many, many supportive men).

Sisterhood is powerful - as we all know.

SophocIestheFox · 12/02/2021 22:03

@OvaHere

You're all welcome. I've enjoyed the sofa and snack day tbh. Grin
Love this Grin Sterling work.
Xanthangum · 12/02/2021 22:05

didn't realise that her QC Ben Cooper was standing in for someone else at short notice.

The legal equivalent of saying "you've got to go on, they're counting on you!" to the understudy...

Chrysanthemum5 · 12/02/2021 22:07

didn't realise that her QC Ben Cooper was standing in for someone else at short notice.

The legal equivalent of saying "you've got to go on, they're counting on you!" to the understudy

Excellent @Xanthangum GrinBen Cooper did a brilliant job