Breastfeeding is now chestfeeding, Brighton’s trans-friendly midwives are told

[Mulletsaremisunderstood]

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/breastfeeding-is-now-chestfeeding-brightons-trans-friendly-midwives-are-told-pwlvmcnc7

Hope this link works as I am a subscriber to the times and logged in.

More nonsense being peddled as 'progressive' . When will the madness end!!?

@gardenbird48

and to be clear, I am not even suggesting that the transgender patient would necessarily be the one making accusations of harassment against a busy nurse who spoke out of turn - it could very well be used against a member of staff by one of the Gender Midwives team - of which there seem to be a reasonable sized team for such a small minority.

The Gender Midwife team would be able to police and report any transgressions that they observe. An accusation of harassment could have a serious impact on someone's career.

good grief, "gender midwife"! It sounds an Orwellian phrase, like "thought police". Surely the important thing is for all midwives to be trained in diversity so as to understand the huge array of vulnerabilities and special needs that they may come across in the population they serve. For example, there is a large class of women who have been raped in the past, to whom labour can be a trigger for traumatic flashbacks. They perhaps might want to be lobbying for midwives to get a special training and status to deal with them and them alone, and rightly so perhaps. Then how about women who have lost a baby before and now giving birth to a live one? They have the need for a very specialised form of midwifery surely. Or women with disabilities? Or those experiencing psychosis? Or women prisoners? The list goes on. A good midwife is a facilitator not a servant. And the people forcing on this tortured language, want those around them to pretend the emperor is clothed. Those who do will get a special badge of honour and be titled "gender servants". Very sad.

[quote MadBadDaddy]@merrymouse

"The trust recognises the vast majority of midwifery service users are women and already has language in place women are comfortable with. This is not changing. For example, we will continue to call them pregnant women and talk about breastfeeding."[/quote]
However, "Maternal" and "Maternity" are now taboo words. An "acknowledgement" is required for not yet having eradicated the word "Maternity" across the NHS Trust.

"Maternal" and "Maternity", with their connotations of "motherhood", are banned because a tiny percentage of "pregnant people" do not wish to be recognised as mothers.

You can do a search for "Maternity" - it occurs six times in the "Gender Inclusive Mission Statement".

The first five times are in the table that explains the old and new terms.

The sixth in the title of one of the references. Note that the less-familiar term "perinatal" is seen here in an academic context:

Knight, M., Bunch, K., Tuffnell, D., Jayakody, H., Shakespeare, J., Kotnis, R., Kenyon, S., Kurinczuk, JJ. eds, on behalf of MBRRACE-UK, 2018. Saving Lives, Improving Mothers’ Care - Lessons learned to inform maternity care from the UK and Ireland Confidential Enquiries into Maternal Deaths and Morbidity 2014-16. Oxford: National Perinatal Epidemiology Unit, University of Oxford.

"Gender Inclusive Language in Perinatal Services:
Mission Statement and Rationale"

Table 1 When referring to the birthing parent:

Previous term: “Maternal” or “maternity”

New term: “Maternity” or “perinatal” (this acknowledges that “Maternity” sometimes refers to terminology which it is not possible for BSUH to change at present)

Previous example: “Maternity care should be available to all”

New example: “Perinatal care should be available to all”

This is where that document was on the open internet until a couple of days ago:

www.bsuh.nhs.uk/maternity/wp-content/uploads/sites/7/2021/01/Gender-Inclusive-Language-in-Perinatal-Services-BSUH.pdf

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The requested URL was not found on this server.

Good job someone had the foresight to archive it:

<a class="break-all" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20210209150516/www.bsuh.nhs.uk/maternity/wp-content/uploads/sites/7/2021/01/Gender-Inclusive-Language-in-Perinatal-Services-BSUH.pdf" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">web.archive.org/web/20210209150516/www.bsuh.nhs.uk/maternity/wp-content/uploads/sites/7/2021/01/Gender-Inclusive-Language-in-Perinatal-Services-BSUH.pdf

Exactly how "gender inclusive" is it to deliberately exclude the vast majority of service users, women who know and "acknowledge" that they are mothers?

Did it occur to you to not be dishonest?

Who are you replying to, Punpkinspicewoman?

When a biological man gives birth I will start using different terminology until then, no.

Perinatal care is care around the moment of birth. Antenatal care during the pregnancy before birth, postnatal care after birth. Maternity services cover all of those, not just perinatal care. So that is confusing. Are they not doing ante and postnatal care?

@Forgotthebins

Perinatal care is care around the moment of birth. Antenatal care during the pregnancy before birth, postnatal care after birth. Maternity services cover all of those, not just perinatal care. So that is confusing. Are they not doing ante and postnatal care?

So not actually factual at all, and as always a distinct lack of consideration for women who depend on clear English for comprehension. English is not my native language and when I was pregnant, I did not understand what perinatal meant. But I did know that the maternity hospital was for expecting mothers, because of the word mater.

Women with special needs are also impacted by this complicating of language in aid of accommodating vanishingly small numbers of expectant mothers.

Another inclusive policy that results in excluding more women than it seeks to include.

I have found different definitions of ‘perinatal’
The following articles start with definitions:

www.who.int/maternal_child_adolescent/topics/maternal/maternal_perinatal/en/

“The perinatal period
The perinatal period commences at 22 completed weeks (154 days) of gestation and ends seven completed days after birth. Perinatal and maternal health are closely linked.

Perinatal mortality refers to the number of stillbirths and deaths in the first week of life (early neonatal mortality).”

www.sabp.nhs.uk/our-services/mental-health/perinatal/what-does-perinatal-mean

“Perinatal is the period of time when you become pregnant and up to a year after giving birth.”

However ‘maternity’ doesn’t seem to require a definition...🤔

www.gloshospitals.nhs.uk/our-services/services-we-offer/maternity/

On a lighter note:

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/we-must-protect-our-chickens-from-the-language-police-whq3nzctd?shareToken=782b2914e7837343f362e88544b9619a

@ErrolThe Dragon Wonderful. That puts it in its place.

Are there laws or policies that affect men that are being challenged by trans ideology?

It just seems now whether it's a TM or TW, the push is to erase or redefine what a woman is, does, or can do.

merrymouse that’s interesting. Certainly the WHO definition is the one I have been familiar with. I am not sure extending perinatal to cover the whole course is helpful, and I would have been startled to hear an ANC appointment at 22 weeks described as perinatal because there was no sign I was about to have a very prem baby! In the WHO definition it covers the period starting when the foetus is viable for birth (I think). It affects how things like maternal and neonatal deaths are counted. This to me goes to the heart of the issue - accuracy of the stats that we use for understanding what is happening to who in public services. I genuinely think that would lead to better services for everybody. If lots of people in healthcare assign different meanings to words we will get bad accidents happening. I could be wrong though as it’s been a while since I worked in the field so perhaps my understanding of the definitions is out of date even not regarding trans inclusive language. Anyone in here in maternity care currently who can be definitive?

I don’t see how it can’t be a problem if the WHO and the NHS use the same word to refer to a period covering either the first week or the first year of life.

Are there laws or policies that affect men that are being challenged by trans ideology?

Arguably this policy does if a man being treated for breast cancer has to walk through a hospital full of signs telling him that only feminine people can be comfortable with the word ‘breast’.

The other issue is that the WHO distinguishes between perinatal mortality and maternal mortality.

The idea that ‘perinatal’ is just a catch all term is wrong.

Thank you Merrymouse.

”Are there laws or policies that affect men that are being challenged by trans ideology?”

Everything in the Equality Act under the Protected Characteristics of Sex and Sexuality impacts on both men and women when “gender” and “gender identity” are incorrectly and illegally given precedence.

The nature and/or degree of impact might differ but the EA does not only protect, and is not intended to only protect, women and lesbians.

For example, in the NHS where “Single Sex Ward” really means “Single Gender Ward”: men might feel that the inclusion of a transman is to the detriment of their privacy and dignity and presents the risk of an accusation of inappropriate behaviour, when that behaviour would be acceptable or tolerated in a single-sex male setting.

@merrymouse

The idea that ‘perinatal’ is just a catch all term is wrong.

I agree. I am also concerned that the change of language could lead to a cultural shift: from a Maternity service that aims to care for and work in partnership with mothers to a Perinatal service that focuses on producing babies.

Even the inaccessibility and unfamiliarity of the terminology seems regressive, suggesting that the POV is that of medics rather than mothers.

@MoleSmokes but it's not the POV of medics in their capacity as medics is it. It's defensive medicine, reactive posturing.

From my experience, "perinatal" is mainly used wrt perinatal mental health. As this covers both post natal and ante natal depression and anxiety, of the woman.

For the mother rather. It's a highly specialised and tailored service with no or v low waiting times obviously as it needs to be immediate.

I think, on reflection, because they often start supporting mum during pregnancy and then can continue afterwards for a while.

For example: www.cntw.nhs.uk/resource-library/perinatal-community-mental-health-team/

That does seem to be how it is generally used re: mental health in the UK, but it has a very specific and different meaning re: perinatal mortality.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perinatal_mortality

Etymologically, I think we can all agree that 'perinatal' means 'around birth' and 'maternity' relates to being a mother.