Breastfeeding is now chestfeeding, Brighton’s trans-friendly midwives are told

[Mulletsaremisunderstood]

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/breastfeeding-is-now-chestfeeding-brightons-trans-friendly-midwives-are-told-pwlvmcnc7

Hope this link works as I am a subscriber to the times and logged in.

More nonsense being peddled as 'progressive' . When will the madness end!!?

This is where we end up . Black menstruators

I'm not mad keen on 'goddess' as a descriptor, being a militant agnostic!

I think some feminism sought equality that effectively meant women living according to male standards. A slightly different slant means we value female roles and histories (herstories) with as much weight and importance as has been traditionally attached to male roles and histories. Isn't it 'equity rather than equality', or similar? So - mothering and raising children is just as valuable as a male-oriented 'success' story of founding a political party or writing a book, etc.

I'm not a theorist and my feminist knowledge is scant and patchy, so don't really feel able to discuss all these things properly.

AMK42

"I just deny that a woman can claim to be a “trans man” AND become pregnant. Therefore maternity services have no need to change their language at all."

I think this sums it up perfectly. In the following article, there is so much mixing of biological sex and gender, that my head was starting to hurt. For instance:

"In deciding that TT could not be registered as the 'father', the judgment defines 'mother' for the first time under English common law. Sir Andrew McFarlane (President of the Family Division of the High Court), framed 'mother' status purely in terms of reproductive experience (para. 279). He says that 'mother' status follows from the 'biological role in giving birth' and is separate from one's gender: TT is a 'male mother'. 'Male' in the sense that TT has received legal recognition of his male gender but a 'mother' due to giving birth. Therefore, it is accepted that those of the male gender can give birth."

www.bionews.org.uk/page_145481

Masculine gender surely.

Yes Arabella, equity rather than equality or equal but different or both men and women are of equal value but not the same. It really seems like the only common sense way of seeing it to me.

Not Goddess then but you get the point, accepting, valuing and celebrating our womanly bodies, perspectives and life experiences. To me that is feminism as much as equal pay.

Apologies if this was mentioned upthread, but the BBC described this policy as being "trans friendly" - not a word about how it affects women.

[quote andyoldlabour]AMK42

"I just deny that a woman can claim to be a “trans man” AND become pregnant. Therefore maternity services have no need to change their language at all."

I think this sums it up perfectly. In the following article, there is so much mixing of biological sex and gender, that my head was starting to hurt. For instance:

"In deciding that TT could not be registered as the 'father', the judgment defines 'mother' for the first time under English common law. Sir Andrew McFarlane (President of the Family Division of the High Court), framed 'mother' status purely in terms of reproductive experience (para. 279). He says that 'mother' status follows from the 'biological role in giving birth' and is separate from one's gender: TT is a 'male mother'. 'Male' in the sense that TT has received legal recognition of his male gender but a 'mother' due to giving birth. Therefore, it is accepted that those of the male gender can give birth."

www.bionews.org.uk/page_145481[/quote]
Agree that mixing up the language of biology and gender identity is a nonsense and furthermore leads to difficulties down the line.

If it was me, I'd hammer out a short statement to be included at the start / end of all written communications, (including a pinned tweet), clarifying that it's essential for maternity health care services to use biologically correct language at all times, and that the words 'woman' and 'mother' are used to include all females, regardless of gender identity. It would need a bit of work to make it less pompous. And then I would dig in my heels and concede no further.

I don’t like ‘goddess’ because it implies a value judgement. All women need sex specific rights simply because they are female humans, just as the basis for all human rights is humanity, regardless of each individual’s virtues.

I think the confusion of Lib feminism with value is one of the reasons that we are in this mess. ‘Female’ isn’t a cool club. It’s just a biological reality.

I take your point Merrymouse.

Sorry for cross post but that should have said 'all females using maternity services' rather than 'all females' (not all females are mothers). Which just goes to show how carefully it would need to be written. But the point is - acknowledge that you distinguish between the language of biological sex and the language of gender identity. And then stick to it and don't conflate them.

@Impatiens

I suppose there's not likely to be any accurate stats on the numbers of people identifying as transmen who get pregnant?

Lionel Shriver cites two in 2017 but not where she got that information:

"The overwhelming majority of the people who use BSUH’s maternity services: women. This strained, clumsy, impractical lexicon is meant to cater instead to the tiny number of natal females who transition to male socially but not medically and give birth. As of 2017, the UK had two such people. To coin a phrase, the policy is not for the many, but the few. Women don’t matter; people who have renounced being women do."

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/d1157740-6d57-11eb-ba86-e516f9df6e0a?shareToken=5863c41c2d40b3dcdcb5ce7d942dd494

Archived: archive.is/N8BlK

There are bound to be more now but still a very tiny % of pregnancies.

The Trans Pregnancy Project at Leeds University (2017 - 2020) states as its first aim:

1. Consider the extent to which transmasculine practices of pregnancy and birth constitute an emerging socio-demographic shift.

transpregnancy.leeds.ac.uk/about/

However, it does not appear to have made any attempt to estimate the number of pregnancies or births in the UK. The only study citing numbers was a survey of about 50 people found via Facebook and living in Canada, USA, Australia and the EU (including UK but not disaggregated by country).

Nothing that I could see about numbers in here although I might have missed something:

"Trans Pregnancy - An International Exploration of Transmasculine Practices of Reproduction"
Law and Policy Review United Kingdom
Francis Ray White
University of Westminster April 2018

transpregnancy.leeds.ac.uk/wp-content/uploads/sites/70/2018/05/Trans-Pregnancy-policy-review-UK.pdf

No clues here either:

"Ensuring pregnant trans men get equal quality care"
Public Health England, 13 March 2020

phescreening.blog.gov.uk/2020/03/13/pregnant-men-best-care/

Thinking that PHE might have similar concerns about other populations who they might want to ensure get "equal quality care", I searched PHE for "deaf" - nope!

phescreening.blog.gov.uk/?s=deaf

As others have mentioned, there seems to have been an extraordinary amount of time and effort put in to accommodating the sensitivities of a tiny % of the population whilst completely failing to consider the impact on the vast majority of women.

It rather gets my goat that all this effort is being magnanimously put into improving and making maternity and bf services "inclusive" for a tiny minority when the same services have been proven to be extremely poor for black women in this country, even in terms of more deaths let alone poorer bf support etc.

www.aims.org.uk/journal/item/mbrrace-bame

"Black women are five times more likely to die in pregnancy, birth or postpartum than white women. Why?
Woman's Hour
Black women are five times more likely to die in pregnancy, birth or postpartum than white women. The risk has been increasing year on year. Today we ask why."

www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m0006sg5

This seems to be another area where conflation of LGB with T has potential to do harm.

If this affects 1 or 2 people a year, that is a rare medical issue that requires a patient specific policy, not a diversity policy.

If on the other hand the trust is treating more and more patients who find existing neutral language and the connotations of the female reproductive role disturbing they need to ask why, not just wave it through as ‘normal for queer people because diversity’.

It’s becoming increasingly clear that the Trans agenda is intent on destroying both the sex class of women AND the family unit! The Family Unit is Transphobic. One has to wonder exactly why these women who claim to be men want to have babies. Should we be pandering at all to this agenda that denies the reality of sex, social units, even ethnicity? www.womenarehuman.com/indigenous-writers-call-out-transgender-poet-for-claiming-to-be-indigenous/

MagicFerret

I totally agree with your post, the whole concept of the radical trans agenda is to disrupt conventional relationships and family life.
Examples include, the "cotton ceiling" and the "glitter family".

4thwavenow.com/2017/05/14/mtof-tells-trans-kids-to-dump-moms-on-mothers-day-and-join-the-glitter-queer-family-of-adult-trans-activists/

[quote WarriorN]"Black women are five times more likely to die in pregnancy, birth or postpartum than white women. Why?
Woman's Hour
Black women are five times more likely to die in pregnancy, birth or postpartum than white women. The risk has been increasing year on year. Today we ask why."

www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m0006sg5[/quote]
Horrifying - and really puts this extraordinary investment of resources into in perspective.

Brighton & Sussex Universities NHS Trust

The Gender Inclusion Team

We have a supportive team available to you to help you on your journey through pregnancy, birth and parenting. Each professional in the team has a specific area of expertise to help provide the best possible care for you and your family.

Gender Inclusion Midwives
Ash Riddington
Community Midwife
Pronouns: He/him

Helen Green
Hospital Midwife
Pronouns: She/they

We are the Gender Inclusion Midwives at BSUH. You may meet one or both of us on your journey and we can help provide additional support and care, alongside your routine midwifery care. We bring experience and understanding to our care, alongside our knowledge and skills as midwives. Our goal is to help you understand the care and options that are available to you, individualise your care in response to your particular experience of being trans or non-binary and pregnant, and affirm, celebrate and support your choices. You can find out more about our work and what kind of extra support is available further down the page.

Consultant Obstetrician
Heather Brown

Pronouns: She/her

Heather is our Consultant Obstetrician, a doctor who specialises in supporting people who need extra care in their pregnancy and birth. Heather specialises in supporting pregnant people who have mental health issues, or who have fears about giving birth. She is experienced in caring for trans and non-binary pregnant people, and is happy to see any of our clients who need medical or obstetric support regardless of whether this involves physical and/or mental health.

Consultant Neonatologist
Neil Aiton

Pronouns: He/him

Neil is our Consultant Neonatologist, a doctor who specialises in providing care for babies born early or poorly. Neil specialises in supporting people who take medications in pregnancy that may affect the baby/babies. He is experienced in planning any additional monitoring babies may need in pregnancy or after they are born, as well as developing infant feeding plans where parents may need to take medication that may transfer into their milk. In addition, Neil is available to support induced lactation for partners.

Consultant Endocrinologist
Anna Crown

Pronouns: She/her

Anna is our Consultant Endocrinologist, a doctor who specialises in hormones. Anna is available to provide information and support to those may need additional input regarding their hormones in their pregnancy, birth and infant feeding journey.

Speciality Doctor in Sexual & Reproductive Health
Kate Nambiar

Pronouns: She/her

Kate is our Speciality Doctor in Sexual & Reproductive Health. Kate runs Clinic T, which is the sexual health and contraception service specifically for trans and non-binary people. Kate is available for pre-conception support and sexual health information and advice.

Specialist Infant Feeding Midwife
Carla Mastroianni

Pronouns: She/her

Carla is one of the Infant Feeding Midwives. She specialises in supporting people to meet their feeding goals whether that involves breast/chestfeeding, expressed milk or formula milk. Carla is available to help develop infant feeding plans and provide support for trans and non-binary people, particularly if they wish to directly feed their baby/babies from their body or to express milk (including those who may have had top surgery). In addition, Carla is available to support induced lactation for partners.

Additional support available

As Gender Inclusion Midwives we can provide extra support to you during and following your pregnancy, alongside your regular community midwife appointments. This can include:

• Talking about where you would feel most comfortable having your midwife appointments (e.g. at home instead of at a Children’s Centre)

• Pronoun stickers for your notes (these are optional, they will only be used if you wish to communicate your pronouns to all healthcare professionals you may meet)

• Company and support at other appointments, such as scans

• Personalised birth, feeding and parenting preparation (antenatal classes) at home

• Talking about how you would like to birth your baby, and supporting your choice of home birth, hospital birth, or Caesarean birth

• Tour of the hospital facilities where you may choose to have your baby

• Writing a birth plan, including your language preferences for talking about your body

• Developing an infant feeding plan, which may include breast/chestfeeding or expressing milk

BSUH goals for gender inclusive perinatal care

As part of the journey to make perinatal care at BSUH gender inclusive for everybody, we are working on:

• Providing safe and supportive clinical care to our trans and non-binary clients

• Connecting with the local trans and non-binary community

• Training midwives and other health professionals about gender identity and the health care needs of trans and non-binary people in pregnancy, birth and the postnatal period

• Developing our services and environment to be more inclusive

• Producing guidance on inclusive language and communication

(There is more but enough to make the point).

www.bsuh.nhs.uk/maternity/our-services/specialist-support/gender-inclusion/

WarriorN I could not find anything on the site that suggested the Trust is even aware that black women are more at risk than white women.

Just want to say....The Times has done lots of articles on trans debate but the Lionel Shriver one, in the Sunday Times got a real big spread.

Over the months commenters had been saying that these articles had been hidden away. Seems some subjects are 'light blue touch paper and stand well back' .

@WarriorN

It rather gets my goat that all this effort is being magnanimously put into improving and making maternity and bf services "inclusive" for a tiny minority when the same services have been proven to be extremely poor for black women in this country, even in terms of more deaths let alone poorer bf support etc.

Unfortunately for the wokerati, black women are still women so part of the privileged majority who have huge resources and top notch care at their fingertips.

So much for Black Lives Matter

I wouldn’t claim to know what the trans agenda is because it seems so confused, but over the last 20 years Gay rights advocates have fought for the right to be legally recognised as a family unit.

WarriorN I could not find anything on the site that suggested the Trust is even aware that black women are more at risk than white women.

Thanks for checking that moles. It makes me apoplectic, all this inclusion stuff, misdirected.

Why can't the rates for black women be flagged and highlighted and addressed openly? You'd hope it's being addressed silently. So why does trans stuff have to be so openly, loudly promoted? Also, disabilities? Chronic conditions?

I'm sorry I haven't read the full thread but I'd bet my bottom dollar that trust is getting some sort of lgbt inclusion award, eg stonewall etc. Has investors in people been captured for example? Obviously it's Brighton too ffs.

Btw the unconscious (also conscious?) racism described around breastfeeding support in that episode of woman's hour was also disgusting.

@AfternoonToffee

I have read some of the comments on the FB Times article. I could cry. Women are happily throwing others under a bus just to appease a tiny minority.

This.

All the details from the trust that moles posted is exclusionary for any woman from a particular background where religion and culture dictates that they must have access to female hcps.

I can't tell if those hcps are definitely adult human females.

Whist, as an agnostic (I think?!), I don't condone certain religious "rules" I do respect them and religion is part of the list of protected characteristics.

Where's the massive write up about those protected characteristics?