Breastfeeding is now chestfeeding, Brighton’s trans-friendly midwives are told

[Mulletsaremisunderstood]

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/breastfeeding-is-now-chestfeeding-brightons-trans-friendly-midwives-are-told-pwlvmcnc7

Hope this link works as I am a subscriber to the times and logged in.

More nonsense being peddled as 'progressive' . When will the madness end!!?

The comment about that hospital not using the word ‘Mother’ is just so upsetting. It undermines and diminishes the significant change women go through when they become a mother. Like the change during puberty to becoming an adolescent, women change physically and mentally once they become a mother (this change is called matrescence) - it has a term but it’s not so well known)

<strong>I personally found this change massive, traumatic, difficult, heartbreaking and then wonderful but it’s a process that a women goes through as they leave their pre baby life behind and become a mother, also known as the birth of the mother. Is this really being taken away from us or in fact, worse, not acknowledged by some now? What a dreadful step backwards and I worry about maternal mental health. Knowing this was a process that new mothers went through was what helped me come to peace with the way I was feeling and my new identity after birth but I think I’d feel so alone if that was taken away from me.</strong>

Great post, SweetMeadow, thank you.

It would appear that Mumsnet is also in thrall to Stonewall and has deleted my post on how to fight against the erasure of women as a sex class. So now you know. Yet another social media site for women has been taken over. I shall not be posting again.

As shriver said in her ST article, only breasts can feed babies, not chests. If those handful of women who have had their breasts removed give birth, they won't be able to feed their babies anyway. So why are we mangling the language?

@Covidcorvid

I can’t read the whole article.

But from what I can read I’m fairly annoyed.

I’m a midwife, we’ve been approached by TRAs telling us to modify our official language in such ways, we’ve always refused. We offer women centred care and 99.9% of our service users identify as women.

Of course we would “be kind” if we had an individual who didn’t identify as a woman. We would happily use their preferred pronouns, whatever name they wanted and refer to them as a man, use the term chest feeding, etc.

But we are not taking language away in official policies, etc. Words matter.

If "words matter" why didn't you read the source material from the hospital, which basically says the same thing as you are? ie Nothing is being imposed or coerced or demanded; inclusive language is available for anyone that might benefit from it

If "words matter" why didn't you read the source material from the hospital, which basically says the same thing as you are? ie Nothing is being imposed or coerced or demanded; inclusive language is available for anyone that might benefit from it

You need to read the source material. According to the hospital chestfeeding and breastfeeding will be used across all materials. They call this ‘additive’ language, but by gendering breast feminine and chest masculine they do more than add, they change the meaning of both words.

If ‘breast’ is feminine, what do you call the cancer than men previously got in their gender neutral breasts? Chest cancer? But that is a different part of the body.

Pregnant “people”

It’s a disgrace

@merrymouse

"The trust recognises the vast majority of midwifery service users are women and already has language in place women are comfortable with. This is not changing. For example, we will continue to call them pregnant women and talk about breastfeeding."

@Werewomennotpeople

Do "werewomen" only appear during a full moon?

Or is it "were women" as in "trans men were women before they transitioned"?

Enquiring minds would like to know

MagicFerret
Re your deleted post - you may have unwittingly broken one of the convoluted rules for this board - (stickie at the top). Have a look at your emails or report your deleted post to MNHQ and ask what you said that broke the rules.
This is a thread about women, pregnancy and our bodies and these seem to attract a lot of attention from those wishing to silence women - don't take it personally

[quote MadBadDaddy]@merrymouse

"The trust recognises the vast majority of midwifery service users are women and already has language in place women are comfortable with. This is not changing. For example, we will continue to call them pregnant women and talk about breastfeeding."[/quote]
Do you think this is a good use of NHS resources when there are more people involved in the advisory panel and policy development than there are actually affected by this?

I had a complex pregnancy with a condition that affects about 1% of pregnant women. There can be serious complications (including death of the baby) and there are a range of treatments. There are no NHS guidelines to support women with the condition, no special policies to make me feel like I wasn't a bit of a failure or a freak, just a page on the NHS website.

And don't even get me started on the mortality rate of black mothers.

The NHS has finite resources and its pissing thousands of pounds up the wall that could be used to improve mother and infant mortality rates on a politically driven agenda.

@clymene
I've had direct experience of one of the midwife-led maternity units in question (as well as knowing several other people who have used their services, not all of whom had straightforward pregnancies/deliveries) and I have no doubt the staff would have bent over backwards to support both you and your baby, because that's just what they do.

This press-release was in all probability simply formalising what they were doing already, and also letting a vulnerable and often stigmatised minority know that they would be cared for on their terms.

@MadBadDaddy - you could at least read the thread and the policy guidance before you come and mansplain

@Madbaddaddy

Yes, this part of their statement genders a neutral body part.

"The trust recognises the vast majority of midwifery service users are women and already has language in place women are comfortable with. This is not changing. For example, we will continue to call them pregnant women and talk about breastfeeding."

Why should specifically 'women' be comfortable with the word 'breast'? It is a body part possessed by both men and women. Why add gender?

This press-release was in all probability simply formalising what they were doing already, and also letting a vulnerable and often stigmatised minority know that they would be cared for on their terms.

If you don't know what the new policy is why are you posting?

This is from their website:

Please note: As part of our journey towards providing gender inclusive care for everybody we are working on updating the language on all of our resources, including our website and patient information leaflets. We will endeavour to do this as quickly as possible, and thank you for your understanding as we implement these changes.

Except by 'gender inclusive' they mean 'we are imposing gendered care'.

Gender: cultural expectations of how a man or a woman will behave and present. Gender: the straitjacket that keeps women in their place.

@Clymene
I did read the thread, from the misleading title, to the link to the false and inflammatory Times article (that I have lodged a complaint about) , all the way through the comments that took all of it at face value, and it made me sick to my stomach that such a wonderful and compassionate initiative could provoke such bitterness and resentment towards both a vulnerable minority (some of whom I call my friends) and a lovely group of caring professionals to whom I owe a debt of gratitude

from the misleading title

Discussed pages back.

a wonderful and compassionate initiative

That is neither wonderful nor compassionate for anyone harmed by imposing gender on language. 'Cruel' and 'thoughtless' are the words that spring to mind.

Why is this vanishing minority of breastfeeding parents not wanting to call it BREASTfeeding? I really really don't get how it helps to call it a chest when all identities have both. Then there is the plurality issue. Breastfeeding is not easy to establish the first time, necessarily. You get rock hard breasts when the milk comes in and you do all the things with cabbage leaves and massage and warm flannels to get the milk to let down inside it. One of your boobs can be a better one to feed from than the other. Then there is that issue of one of them being drunk dry and then you offering the baby the other breast to have some more. How can you do that whilst referring to the chest? Do you refer to your chests, offering the other chest, or to the GP a right and a left chest when pointing out the one that has the mastitis? It just sounds like a huge avoidance mechanism. Reminds me of that olden times euphemism where girls' breasts were called their "bosoms".

@merrymouse

from the misleading title

Discussed pages back.

a wonderful and compassionate initiative

That is neither wonderful nor compassionate for anyone harmed by imposing gender on language. 'Cruel' and 'thoughtless' are the words that spring to mind.

I agree. I would add that I personally consider it offensive, if not downright abusive, to force tenets of anti scientific and ideological beliefs in a general publicly funded medical setting like that.

Like all belief systems, those who adhere to particular beliefs can opt in. As we used to say in another time, 'keep your rosaries (replaced now with gender ideology) away from my ovaries'.

Are we going backwards?

There was a big drive from WHO to support breastfeeding at the time I was pregnant. My obstetrician asked me at first consultation if I was considering breastfeeding. There was a breastfeeding support leader in the hospital and we could go back to attend sessions. There was a breastfeeding group I went to every week.

Breastfeeding was hugely supported at the time as bottle feeding had taken over and it was obvious it was a lost art and new mothers needed to be encouraged. ' Breast is best' was the slogan. Ne'er a 'chest' mentioned. I feel quite lucky now. A woman's breastfeeding group with nobody trying to bullshit us or intruders forced on us who had no healthy reason for being there.

it made me sick to my stomach that such a wonderful and compassionate initiative could provoke such bitterness and resentment towards both a vulnerable minority

It isn't provoking bitterness and resentment towards any vulnerable minority - unless that's how we're referring to the NHS these days? The blame is squarely on the Maternity Service involved.

[quote MadBadDaddy]@clymene
I've had direct experience of one of the midwife-led maternity units in question (as well as knowing several other people who have used their services, not all of whom had straightforward pregnancies/deliveries) and I have no doubt the staff would have bent over backwards to support both you and your baby, because that's just what they do.

This press-release was in all probability simply formalising what they were doing already, and also letting a vulnerable and often stigmatised minority know that they would be cared for on their terms.[/quote]
The Equality and Human Rights Commission particularly recommend that public bodies should take action wherever possible to include trans and non-binary people in the widest sense (DoH, 2008). In this context it is generally taken to mean unwanted conduct related to a protected characteristic that has the purpose or effect of violating someone’s dignity or creating an intimidating, hostile, degrading, humiliating, or offensive environment for them. Harassment could include accidentally or intentionally misgendering a patient (BASHH, 2019).

Not very nice or conducive for a good working atmosphere for staff if they can be accused of harassment for ACCIDENTALLY misgendering a patient..... if the stakes are high for using the wrong language in the middle of a busy hospital or a stressful situation, the nurses are very likely to try and use the same language for everyone to be on the safe side.

In the busy maternity wards I was on, it was all I could expect to get called 'mum'. They didn't have time for names or patient-tailored special language. Why is it different now? I don't think the NHS has changed that much?

here's the link for anyone who wants to actually read it MadBad.

www.bsuh.nhs.uk/maternity/wp-content/uploads/sites/7/2021/01/Gender-inclusive-language-in-perinatal-services.pdf

and to be clear, I am not even suggesting that the transgender patient would necessarily be the one making accusations of harassment against a busy nurse who spoke out of turn - it could very well be used against a member of staff by one of the Gender Midwives team - of which there seem to be a reasonable sized team for such a small minority.

The Gender Midwife team would be able to police and report any transgressions that they observe. An accusation of harassment could have a serious impact on someone's career.

metro.co.uk/2021/02/10/brighton-midwives-told-to-say-chestfeeding-to-be-more-inclusive-14055419/

Take a look at the comments. You'll see a trans person, who was on the committee deciding these new guidelines, arguing the case.