Have you ever ... ? (Things women have to deal with, that men don't)

[EssenceOfDittany]

I had a conversation with a naive "be kind" sort of person (male) the other day at work, who casually came out with something about sex being basically irrelevant next to gender identity. I reminded him that the sole reason for women's oppression throughout history is biology, i.e. sex. Thankfully he revised his position pretty quickly and looked like he felt a bit silly for having said it in the first place. (I think he is also blissfully unaware of how controversial such a "belief" is these days, and was only parroting the thing about gender because he'd heard lots of other people say it.)

This got me thinking, I'd like to compile a list of some of the crappy things girls/women have to deal with in their everyday lives that men never/rarely do, so that when someone more set in their opinions says "sex is irrelevant", I can say "really? So, have you ever ... ?"

A few to start us off:

… spent the entire day with a jumper tied around your waste to hide the blood stain on your trousers when your period caught you off-guard?

… left a social gathering earlier than you wanted because you realised you didn’t have enough sanpro to get you through the evening?

… made an excuse to not go swimming when you’d like to, because you realise you haven’t done the requisite bikini/leg/armpit maintenance?

… spent hours painfully removing your pubic hair when you didn’t want to, because an intimate male partner told you it was disgusting and you didn't have the confidence to tell him to sod off?

… endlessly plucked/waxed/obsessed over your upper lip hair because it would be a disaster if someone realised that was your natural state?

… taken the route three times as long, just to avoid going down a short alley alone in the dark?

… clutched your keys between your fingers with the “blade” sticking outwards to make you feel like you might stand a chance if attacked by a man, since you know you’ll have no chance based on strength alone?

… asked a family member to track your location when you’re out alone, and told them exactly where they should expect you to be every step of the journey, so they can raise the alarm if something happens to you?

… felt relieved when your company moved to WFH, because you could finally stop putting on a brave face at your desk while in agony on your period?

… worried about judgement from your colleagues when you say you're “feeling ill” a day or two every month?

... had a constant sick feeling in your stomach when out alone in your local area after dark, because you're afraid of being assaulted/mugged?

Please help me flesh out the list further! I’ve only scratched the surface, and I know there are so many more examples, relating to motherhood, career progression, DV, women’s health, general safety, all sorts. I want to rattle off this list next time someone dares suggest that “sex is irrelevant”.

Dh said he's never been in any meeting where men behave like the Jackie Weaver video. He's also never been jn a meeting where women feel too intimidated to speak. He works in a v male industry. I asked him whether a woman, in this meetings, would have the same answer for me.

Dh can also go running where he wants, when he wants.

Sat in a conference with only one other woman in the room, key note speaker mentioned the ‘gender’ imbalance and said ‘some of you men need to identify as women to solve it’. How all the men laughed, the other woman looked as stony faced as me.

I had a conversation with a naive "be kind" sort of person (male) the other day at work, who casually came out with something about sex being basically irrelevant next to gender identity. I reminded him that the sole reason for women's oppression throughout history is biology, i.e. sex.

A lot of the examples on here are, arguably, about gender rather than biological sex. But what annoys me a LOT, is that so many of the high profile trans women we see don't experience the "gender" ones either. Because basically, everyone knows they're actually men and/or because by the time they transition, they've missed so much of the shittyness (being groped in public etc etc).

Biological reality for me includes endless poking and prodding and invasive procedures due to fertility issues. And of course, this is exacerbated by the endless poking and prodding and general physical unpleasantness (and long term impact) of being pregnant and then giving birth.

Is it biological or gender-related that women's entire experience, pain etc must be sublimated as a parent? Have major abdominal surgery but here are a few paracetamol to take and by the way, you can't rest but instead need to be up 20 out of 24 hours a day manhandling a baby. And no, we're not going to help with that. After my c-section, I was left in a room alone with my baby in a crib next to me. When she cried, I could not get to her and I had to press the button repeatedly before someone came to help me. I was less than 3 hours post surgery. Is there any chance in hell that a man would be left alone, never mind with a small baby, three hours post surgery? And don't even get me started on lack of research or will to address the reality of the physical impact of giving birth and how women could do with more support.

I am less safe, and less comfortable, in every car I've ever owned than DH is.

It also makes me angry when these things are seen as "female privilege". Like we're lucky to spend our teenage years worrying about period starting unexpectedly during school hours and the resulting embarrassment or that we should be grateful that we spend 9 months at a time with severely limited lives and massive physical impacts so that we can bring children into the world. And then we aren't even bloody appreciated for it.

I bought my own house as a single parent with my name on the mortgage. When I married 11 years later and put my husband's name on the mortgage all letters from the building society were addressed to Mr & Mrs (his initials). When I complained, I was treated like i was weird for asking and told "that's how it's always done, we can't change it, the man's name always comes first"

Bled for 9 months straight on the contraceptive implant, so I had anaemia and was fainting, but the doctor decided it was preferable for me to quit driving and take on reduced duties at work, rather than remove the implant.

Contraceptive care is so misogynistic and anti-woman.

Having to check outside before taking the bins out because the last time you did it, a man came up and wanted you to 'have breakfast' with him - and you couldn't run back inside because that would mean unlocking the door (as you always close it to stop any man sneaking in whilst you're putting the cardboard in the blue bin).

Having to explain to your partner that I wasn't out there a long time because I wanted to talk to the man who was standing there, I was out there for a long time because I was trapped and would have appreciated his coming out, not to confront the man, but just to let him know I wasn't home alone.

Having to explain to your partner that no, I wasn't handling it fine when that drunk bloke came up and put his arm around you whilst saying 'Oh, you've got a lovely one here, mate', I was being assaulted and would have appreciated some assistance.

Being asked by one friend why you don't talk to a long term friend anymore and when you say 'because as I went to say goodbye, he grabbed my tits' being told 'Oh, that's not like him, he must have been really drunk'. Like that's an excuse?

Having to explain why you suddenly exploded into a Terminator in the venue and sent some bloke flying across the room. Overreacting? Just drunk and friendly? No, I'd been polite, I'd been disinterested, I'd told him three times not to touch me and not only was that the fourth time he had touched me, he'd gone from my shoulder to my knee and had then gone for my crotch, but fortunately, where he'd moved himself to obscure what he was doing from the CCTV, he'd actually put himself off balance enough for that to work.

Explaining why when you were in a cab alone, you always told him the cab plate/registration number when you called to say you were in a cab and where you were at that point/ETA. No, it wasn't out of politeness/consideration, it was to tell the driver that I had noted the details and to suggest that there was a man waiting for me at the other end, even when there wasn't.

Explaining why female friends dropping you off would always wait for a while after you were indoors and the light was on before driving away.

Explaining why x comedian/y show just isn't the funniest thing in the fucking world. No, he isn't just a hapless innocent being misunderstood by the mean, wicked shrews he endures. He's crossed the boundaries and triggered their 'I'm going to be raped/killed' response - and no, a man setting those off is not funny. And no, that other show where the joke is that he takes women for dates on his boat because they will always have sex out of fear that he'll chuck them over the side is NOT an amusing 'oh, look at how awful this character is'.

And a light-hearted one.
Product designers build based on male anatomy.

Having phone screens made too wide, so there's no way to text with one hand (because my thumb isn't as long as the keyboard.)

And a light-hearted one.
Product designers build based on male anatomy

I have battery operated garden tools where putting the battery on the tool and on charge is like this. I can’t reach the clips with my hands.

Having a 4th degree tear and a bladder injury due to traumatic birth. Couldn't have sex for a year as too painful. My doctor seemed more concerned how my husband was coping due to lack of sex.

Having a creepy colleague rub my leg and ask why I don't wear stockings. Then go into detail why they are healthier for female genitals. It was my first job and when I complained to HR I was brushed off as he is like this with everyone.

Apologies not read all thread, but mine is being in a dilemma applying for a job when in early pregnancy.

Texting your friends from a taxi on the way home and when you get in so they know you’re alive.

When you get labelled over emotional in a work meeting and a male counterpart makes the same remarks he is confident/or says it like it is!

Leaving a drink if you take your eyes off it/go to the toilet for fear it will have been spiked.

Males commenting on your appearance to their friends like you can’t hear them.

Being touched inappropriately on the dance floor.

Saying you have a boyfriend rather than just saying no to random strangers who ask for your number (because they might get aggressive and an imaginary boyfriend has more clout than you do)!

Going on a first date somewhere public in case first date is a rapist/murderer.

Not going out alone at night/dark streets for fear of rape/murder.

Dying hair to cover greys while men get to become silver foxes.

Wearing control pants/Spanx to smooth everything out.

Being told o should wear flat shoes as I’m tall enough for a women!

And loads more...

Falling out with your brother because he owns a very male-dominated company and refused to employ a female apprentice because she'd get all sorts of abuse chucked at her.

Couldn't see that they guys should stop behaving like that, instead just easier and safer to keep women out of the place.

Had hopes of any career progression dashed at my current workplace due to internalized misogyny from a female boss. That was after returning to work part-time following mat leave.

Am repeatedly asked by my manager and well-meaning colleagues how I'm coping with the kids and managing homelife, in addition to working. DH has no such queries.

Got told by a Senior Manager at work (pre-lockdown) that women get to "have a year off" after having babies.

Got told by another Senior Manager that he'd never employ women of a certain age into higher positions because they were too much of a liability, due to getting pregnant and it would give him a headache to arrange mat cover for her.

Was told by my dad when heavily pregnant, not to worry about labour and the pain of childbirth because "women are designed for it."

I could go on.

I have not long ago received my third letter from the DWP saying they have not disseminated against me because of my sex because, well they admit they removed the word 'sex' from their equality statement and used 'gender' but this is 'more inclusive' they don't seem able to get the point that the Equality Act is about fairness not 'inclusivity'.

They also had the audacity to imply I was wasting their time during a pandemic.

@ButterflyBitch l am 44 and my priorities are sooo different now too! Thankfully l spend more time at home than at work these days - much nicer set up

Getting septicaemia and nearly dying 4 weeks after a mirena coil was inserted

Being flashed at at least 100 times before I was even 20.

Having to leave my beautiful flat and move in with male friends because a man who tried to rape me knew (roughly) where I lived.

Having to be accompanied on all walks to avoid being harassed by a stalker. When two female colleagues got video evidence of the stalker harassing me, he tried to kill all three of us by driving on the kerb to run us over.

Losing countless days of my life to crippling period pain, then seeing periods being fetishized by people like Yaniv.

@ArchbishopOfBanterbury

Bled for 9 months straight on the contraceptive implant, so I had anaemia and was fainting, but the doctor decided it was preferable for me to quit driving and take on reduced duties at work, rather than remove the implant.

Contraceptive care is so misogynistic and anti-woman.

I agree. When discussing coils with a dr (female one) and saying my worries she said but you've had 2 children. As in, why would it be anymore painful and intrusive than that? Because I didn't want it.

Felt guilty as fuck for returning to your career after mat leave. Particularly from other mums...

Or how about being made to feel like an inadequate mum because you choose to feed your baby formula milk

• Aged 12 having a porn magazine shoved in my face in a deserted school corridor and asked whether I'd "look like that one day";

• Having my bra size shouted out to the whole class because the label was (unknown to me) visible through my regulation school shirt;

• Stopping wearing skirts for work, not because I wanted to, but because a man made a remark as he plugged his laptop in under the table that he "wasn't looking up [my] skirt". Well, no, that didn't occur to me until you pointed it out...

• Carrying extra shoes around because 'work shoes' weren't suitable for outside the office;

• Getting flak for wearing smart boots (so that I didn't need to carry the extra pair of shoes around);

• PPE that doesn't fit because it's designed for a man;

• One toilet for women in the whole compound. Needing to remember a combination code (and hunt down someone who has it - no other women in my meeting) as too many men have been caught using the women's loos because theirs are filthy;

• Having to take a sick day nearly every month (and otherwise creative amendment of my diary, e.g. to WFH pre-covid) due to period flow so heavy I need to be near a toilet and not stuck in a long meeting;

• Having (heavy, disruptive) periods every month even though I don't want children and there being no good way out of it (hormonal contraception side effects, medical procedure side effects etc.);

• Taking longer to get ready in the morning, especially during my period, because the 'expected' outfitting is more than for men, e.g. hair length (DH doesn't even need to brush his, it's so short), extra clothing items (bra etc.), needing to wash hair more often so takes longer in the shower;

• Constantly being on edge when walking after dark, even in a 'safe' area. Making sure I cross the road / change direction if I see a man suddenly walking behind me in an otherwise empty area, to check if he was innocuous or not;

• Being mistaken for my boss' assistant rather than the (senior) person who'd convened the meeting;

• Being told I'll change my mind 'when the clock starts ticking' about wanting children... DH has never been told this;

• Worrying I won't get the job because I'm the 'wrong age' (i.e. childbearing) and everyone knows I just got married (some years ago, thankfully I did get the job, but I spent ages worrying about whether I needed to somehow weave this into the interview, time that I could have spent prepping for the actual job questions);

• People assuming I changed my name when I married... (apart from my slightly out-there aunt who now sends letters to Mr and Mrs HerName ). Being addressed as Mrs. Husband's First Name, Husband's Surname;

• YY to those mentioning product design, car safety, phones etc., this really hacks me off;

• Generally having the rage and giving headspace to this stuff when I could be enjoying myself or having different (male) experiences. Always having to fight. I was really struck by Reni Eddo Lodge's observation that her white classmate at uni could just leave the black history module, and that was an end of it for her, because she 'didn't want to do it any more'. REL and her black / mixed-race classmates didn't have that luxury; even if they left the module, it wouldn't take them away from living their lives as black people and having to see and experience racism. Even if you want to, you can't walk away from biology.

OMFG I just fell out with DH as I was telling him a joke and he kept talking over me to suggest 'funnier' punchlines, before he'd even heard the fucking actual punchline. Can I finish a sentence in my own home please? And now he's gone off with a sad face

10 years treated like a dramatic hypochondriac before they did the test need to confirm the very common gynae condition I have.

Multiple internal examinations by middle aged men before I even turned 14

There are too many to even go through to be honest

Not being able to go for a drink with my male boss after work, or play golf with him, or get trussed up in Lycra and go running with him on our lunch break, and having to watch all my male colleagues do this instead and get promoted in super fast time.

Been bent over a bin at work-and had a bloke grind himself (he was hard) into your back and try to grab your boob
Thankfully they banned him-and his girlfriend who was watching and laughing
Wolf whistled at in the street
Being followed home
Telling your daughter to ‘always walk with the traffic coming towards you-and take the route home that has the most lighting’ and then realise you’ve been doing the same all your life
Being slut shamed