The same as racism? Help me out please.

[talkingdeadscot]

So, after yet another discussion last night, my DH said that my insistence that I would not allow a TW to perform an intimate examination at the doctors on me as akin to racism. I don't think it is but I can't articulate why. Why is my refusal to accept TWAW as discriminatory as racism? He says it's because I'm denying a minority exists and has rights. I said I'd also refuse a man but apparently TWAW so that's not the same even if I personally refuse to accept that TWAW (which I do)

Help!

For DH, it's just a medical examination so who's doing the examining shouldn't even be a consideration.

Bully for him. As it happens, I don't mind which sex HCPs look after me. But I completely get that for some people, mostly women, it matters enormously.
It's irrelevant** that I, and he, don't mind.

If anyone decides to report my post because of the terms I just use, I reclaim that term and name myself.

Instinct. Right. C'mon lots of us aren't obviously male or female.

Okay. That's not true, but you are obviously free to think that.

Somewhere there's an article about all the different things that we use to recognise someone's sex. You might find it interesting.

I think it feels like a big deal because he showed he doesn't respect or understand consent.

Consent applies in a medical setting because the patient has the power of consent in two areas; the treatment that is offered, and the staff. For some types of treatment its accepted that women have the right to ask for female staff.

Instinct. Right. C'mon lots of us aren't obviously male or female.

It's mostly not true, and it's also irrelevant to this thread.

some of the big court cases against gender ideology in the uk are being brought about by women of colour.
does he think they are all racist too?

It’s not like racism at all. I think it’s offensive that your DH is drawing that analogy.

The way to put it is that it is justified indirect discrimination based on biological sex. TW cannot change their sex from M to F, they are still M. You refuse to be examined by members of the M sex, which discriminates against all men and indirectly against trans women.

This is type of discrimination is allowable and perfectly legal based on your own legally recognised rights to privacy and same sex provision of intimate services.

You're not being ridiculous at all OP. Everyone has enough education to know men aren't women.

I’d ask him if he could understand why you’d be uncomfortable with Eddie Izzard doing the examination. I certainly would be.

I’m BAME. He’s deliberately being a dick. Tell him that from me. Tell him that women of colour don’t like him using us as a gotcha point. I think he’s the racist one.

The point is, you might not always know.

The majority of women can spot a born male in real life at some distance, regardless of clothing, makeup up etc. It's the teeny tiny things that are just there, regardless of how good the transition may be, these things can't be masked, and it's impossible for transwomen to shake off. They may be able to get away with it with filters etc in a still photo. But not in real life. 🤷‍♀️

Does your husband realise that if a man examines you you would have a chaperone in the room? Does he know that over 90% of sexual assaults are perpetrated by men and there's no difference in offending rates between men and transwomen?

Tell him race has nothing to do with it. If you were racist then you might object to having a intimate examination by a woman of another race. You wouldn't.

Sadly, it sounds as if this husband is racist as well as misogynistic.

Men oppress women, not the other way around. The racism analogy is back to front.

Hence the scenario that a member of the oppressor class is even in this position to touch, against their consent, a member of the oppressed class. If women were the ones in power, it wouldn't be happening.

Your DH needs to look at exactly how he thinks a powerless minority is able to demand that the oppressed cohort lose their boundaries. Ably and enthusiastically supported by other members of the same sex (him!).

He might also want to ask himself exactly how he has managed to be persuaded that women have power over men, when they're on their backs with their legs in the air, not wanting to be touched by a male but being told they have to, in order to validate him!

It's twisted. And he's allowed himself to be manipulated.

They also may have more certificates of study than you but clearly both are missing the bit of their brain that understands biology.

The majority of women can spot a born male in real life at some distance, regardless of clothing, makeup up etc. It's the teeny tiny things that are just there, regardless of how good the transition may be, these things can't be masked, and it's impossible for transwomen to shake off. They may be able to get away with it with filters etc in a still photo. But not in real life

Drs/hcp shouldn't be misleading patients like that in the first place. If someone asks fir a female care giver and they send in someone who isn't female regardless of how well they "pass" then that's not what the patient has consented to. Treatment without consent ( when the patient is lucid and conscious amd informed ) is assult isn't it?

Drs/hcp shouldn't be misleading patients like that in the first place

Indeed they should not.

Treatment without consent ( when the patient is lucid and conscious amd informed ) is assult isn't it?

Yes. It is.

clearly both are missing the bit of their brain that understands biology.

I bet they miraculously find it when it comes to who they have sex with, and they definitely will know whether they need contraception or whether they can have a child with a partner.

I would be very suspicious about the true intentions of a male who transitioned, and then put themselves in a position which involved them carrying out intimate examinations on females.
OP, I think your DH is showing a lack of empathy towards you.

@ErrolTheDragon

clearly both are missing the bit of their brain that understands biology.

I bet they miraculously find it when it comes to who they have sex with, and they definitely will know whether they need contraception or whether they can have a child with a partner.

Indeed Errol!

medium.com/@genderdetective/an-open-letter-to-the-guy-on-twitter-who-wonders-if-biological-sex-is-real-58d2cb4403f5

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/patient-branded-transphobic-after-asking-for-female-medic-3jh3snddt

"Patient branded transphobic after asking for female medic

A clinic has apologised over its reaction to a letter from a rape survivor who wanted a woman to carry out her breast screening

A woman who asked for her NHS breast-screening to be carried out by a female-born clinician was pilloried as a transphobe by a hospital trust."

Does your husband think that they shouldn't have apologised?

I've asked for a female doctor for almost as long as I've booked my own doctors appointments (around 36 years). I had a couple of bad experiences with a couple of male doctors when I was in my teens (one being an intimate exam with no chaperone that left me feeling uneasy after). In all those years nobody has ever queried (or even raised an eyebrow over) my choice although sometimes I have been told I might have to wait a bit longer to be seen (which is fine).

And suddenly in the last 3 or 4 years women are being told that they are transphobic bigots for wanting to chose a female person. It's one of the things that really highlights how rapidly this ideology is spreading. 6 years ago your husband would not have thought twice about you expressing a wish for a female doctor.

I would be very suspicious about the true intentions of a male who transitioned, and then put themselves in a position which involved them carrying out intimate examinations on females

In any position where women might expect/prefer/need to see another woman.

It’s only relevant if by having a TW perform an intimate examination at the doctors comes with a 13% increase in likelihood of death

It's relevant because the underlying belief or principle is the same. The husband believes TWAW. Therefore he must believe that TMAM. So, therefore he must have no issue with receiving a blood transfusion from a trans man who has been pregnant.

What you are saying is that the consequences of accepting a lie are not the same in different situations. I agree with that. But bodily autonomy and privacy, while not on a par with life and death, are very important. Important enough that we set up services and laws to ensure that they are preserved. And no one should be made to go along with a lie against their will.