Friends dd has just come out as agender

[Teenageromance]

She is supporting her choices as that is what we do - but how do I support her without compromising that I know it is a lot of nonsense. The dd wants to change her name and use alternative pronouns.

Pronouns are they/their

My house is a safe space for DC’s friends to visit. The main rule I have made with DC is that any discussion is respectful.

He and I disagree vehemently about a particular subject and rather than go through a heated debate every time, now I stop him and say “I won’t get involved in this discussion because I believe the problems you’re raising stem from it being a bad idea to begin with”

He can believe what he likes but I won’t problem-solve for him when IMO the problem is the belief itself. So far its reduced arguments on that topic by 100%.

I occasionally get ‘sounded out’ but the fact I’m consistent and he has to problem-solve himself means he has thought more carefully about the topic, not just jumped straight to being defensive and more entrenched.

Of his friends, I use names to avoid pronouns where necessary and try to reply honestly as tactfully as I can.

Pre-lockdown #1 I overheard them in the garden having a gentle exploration of it maybe being better to just be yourself with no pressure ‘like here - your mum never cares and she wears some weird shit herself’

I’ve never been so happy to have my dress sense questioned

So my advice is, you can be respectful by using their name, and/or pronouns, and keep a boundary about discussions so things don’t get heated but you aren’t ‘pretending’ to keep the peace.

I still disagree on one specific aspect with DC however he and his friends know they can be themselves here without the need to form arguments/defend positions.

From my limited experience they want to be themselves more than they want to ‘be right’ and given that safe space they soon question stuff themselves.

The defensiveness when they are challenged reminded me a lot of when I was questioned about my abusive ex, I did not want to be forced to defend him but I was too scared of the consequences if I didn’t.

It was only in a safe space that I could start to really think about his words and actions and their impact on me, for myself

So that’s what I try to bear in mind with DC & co.

And a name change which I’m quite happy to do - I object to using alternative pronouns to normal accepted English. I don’t think a 16 year old has the right to dictate I change accepted English grammar for her.

Yeah I think I would say am agender as well

Great to see us oldies and teens agreeing

How old is she OP?
Is your DD bothered by this? Seems to me to maybe be a smart choice for a kid who wants to fit in with identity trend with something that sounds authentic and allows her to be/dress, etc how she wants.

OldPervsWithNoFannyOfTheirOwn You sound like a great parent, love their comment on your dress sense too.

With the view to educate myself...what is wrong with deciding to become agender or asking to use different pronouns? I just assumed that it was people’s right to do this? I am interested in other views and opinions.

@Teenageromance

Pronouns are they/their

They/their is really not a linguistic stretch and is use interchangeably with singular pronouns when the gender is unknown. If it really bothers you, just use their name. Refusing to do so increases the likelihood that they will regress into Internet communities where they feel validated, and thus it's harder for them to be critical and move out of the phase.

@Gretafamily

With the view to educate myself...what is wrong with deciding to become agender or asking to use different pronouns? I just assumed that it was people’s right to do this? I am interested in other views and opinions.

People have the right to call themselves whatever they like. They do not have the right to insist on what other people call them. Compelled speech is wrong. As for a PP who said what's the harm in just calling them what they want to be called. Well, give and inch and they take a mile.

Respect is earned and I will refer to some people as he or her when it doesn't match their actual sex from birth, if I think it is right to do so. I don't jump through hoops on the whims of teenagers or those who (to quote Mumsnet's favourite phrase when they delete threads or ban posters) "aren't acting in good faith."

We are so quick to make everything either for girls or for boys that it is no wonder kids come to these sorts of decisions really. Some boys want to wear a bit of makeup. Some girls want to have short hair and play football.

I use they/their instead of he/his for DSs BF who is a girl thinking she is a boy.
The child would be devastated if I called them she. I don't want to validate with he so use they. Despite wanting to shout that I think it's a load of bullshit I haven't as they are very emotionally vulnerable. I don't want to cause them any emotional pain and by questioning it will do. It's not my place. I have spoken candidly with their parents (who wanted to ask for my opinion) saying I think it is a load of bullshit. But not to the child who is already very emotionally sensitive as that is not my place.

I don't think your attitude, OP, will do anything other than confirm the agender teenager's idea that everyone over 30 has one foot in the grave.

I have spoken candidly with their parents (who wanted to ask for my opinion) saying I think it is a load of bullshit. But not to the child who is already very emotionally sensitive as that is not my place

Same here (i just spoke to the mother who asked my opinion BEFORE she told me about the child)

"Agender?".

I'm agog.

@Coyoacan

I don't think your attitude, OP, will do anything other than confirm the agender teenager's idea that everyone over 30 has one foot in the grave.

She'll learn. She'll grow up eventually.

@Fieldofyellowflowers

We are so quick to make everything either for girls or for boys that it is no wonder kids come to these sorts of decisions really. Some boys want to wear a bit of makeup. Some girls want to have short hair and play football.

But I was a football playing girl with short hair and I knew I was a girl.

Boy George and Marilyn knew/know they are men.

That reasoning doesn't wash.

You can take pandering to children too far.

@LunaHeather

Not everyone thinks the same way as you. That was just an example as well. My initial point was that gender stereotypes are too bloody strict sometimes and it is no wonder some kids start questioning whether they are one, the other or neither.

I think using the preferred name but not the pronouns is a good compromise, especially in an environment where you can't get sacked.

The use of sexed pronouns is part of the English language. The request for alternative pronouns imposes an additional cognitive load, which, frankly, a 16-year old shouldn't be asking for. Endless pandering will only prolong adolescence, sometimes a metaphorical bucket of cold water over the head is the kindest thing you can do to a sensitive person.

I'd also tell her that many gender-critical feminists are 'agender', that it's sensible to think there are better things to do with your time than obsess about 'gender' but that it's not necessary to change pronouns to signal this important process of reflection to the rest of the world.

[quote Fieldofyellowflowers]@LunaHeather

Not everyone thinks the same way as you. That was just an example as well. My initial point was that gender stereotypes are too bloody strict sometimes and it is no wonder some kids start questioning whether they are one, the other or neither.[/quote]
Yes
Gender stereotypes are ridiculous

I don't understand how we ended up here instead of just ignoring them.

@LunaHeather I agree. Gender stereotypes should be ignored. I suppose that's harder for teenagers with a tendency to overthink though.

I find it all a bit worrying but try to be matter of fact when DD12 talks about not identifying as a boy or a girl & that we need to use different pronouns to refer to her. She started secondary school in September & when we spoke to the staff about how she was getting on, their only concern was a rather full on friendship with a girl who is going through the transgender process ( having counselling etc). I think it’s just a phase.

What is agender? Can someone tell me please!

[quote Fieldofyellowflowers]@LunaHeather I agree. Gender stereotypes should be ignored. I suppose that's harder for teenagers with a tendency to overthink though.[/quote]
I think it's harder because teens are now faced with/taught by academics whose raison d'etre is to inflame.

I used to have respect for academia but no longer. The goal seems to be "seek attention, cause trouble" and teens are really getting the brunt of it.