Nicola Sturgeon throws Joanna Cherry under the bus

[Whatdoyoudowhendemocracyfails]

twitter.com/nicolasturgeon/status/1354521063502336001?s=21

Personal statement condemning transphobia in response to the number of young members leaving and giving this as their reason.

Also see recent departure of Mridul Wadhwa, (transwoman who runs Rape Crisis centre), from SNP to the greens. That was over the Lamont amendment, asserting the right of females to ask for a female forensic examiner after rape.

I think the statement came out of a state of panic. It MUST be about a fear of losing the youth vote? I’m not on Twitter anymore because I can’t stand the manufactured rows and the level of ‘argument’.

But this is odd. Of course no one wants any group of people to be denied rights or be victimised but why is the FM seemingly ignoring the majority of women within her party who just want to ring fence some protections for women as per the Equality Act 2010? Why is this interpreted as anti-trans. The amendments to the Hate Crime Bill have been suggested so that the discussions can take place around these rights without fear of being criminalised - and this has been interpreted as ‘transphobes’ wanting to persecute the transgender community?! Why does it always have to descend into this mess of teeth-gnashing and wailing? The histrionics are staggering. And then of course all the Ultra right-wing, objectionable, homophobes and racists see it as an opportunity to stick the boot in and then the hard-of-thinking lump all the people wanting respectful dialogue about women’s rights in with them. And round and round it goes.

I’m disappointed with NS. This does nothing but alienate huge swathes of her female electorate. I voted for SNP after being a Labour voter all my adult life. I cannot bring myself to vote SNP in this climate. Show some compassion and understanding of the subtleties of this issue - at least have some dialogue with ForWomen Scotland and show you’re giving this issue proper, thoughtful consideration and aren’t just responding to the crowd that’s shouting loudest.

I've never thought twice about voting for the SNP or independence, Imean completely torn now. I don't think I can in good conscience now when I have to depend on Westminster to protect womens sex based rights.

I think the PPs who say Sturgeon is chasing the youth vote are bang on the money. Older sensible taxpayers with mortgages can see exactly how much worse off we’d be in an independent banana republic with a massive deficit and no UK trading partner willing to keep bailing us out.
None of the SNP can legitimately claim to be acting in Scotland’s interests, since economists (even their own) agree we’d face at least a decade of severe austerity if we were daft enough to vote for independence.
Sturgeon’s refusal to defend women’s rights, for mere political expediency, is despicable. And exactly what I have come to expect from her and her divisive party of separatists.

Well, those who are against independence have nothing to fear now.

How does anyone imagine people as narcissistic and fragile as the wokey faction are going to lead a struggle against the British state?

I dont know masses about the history of the SNP, but when I was a kid they were the 'Tartan Tories', pretty stodgy, vaguely rightwing and traditionalists.

They've reinvented themselves under Sturgeon as a super progressive liberal party who lay claim to the fountain of youth, but despite this shiny new face the largest part of their membership retains people from Salmond's era and before.

This seems to be all about inner schisms of the SNP - that vid of the FM's was appealing to one sect, the TRA subject is just a flag waved at certain sectors of the party.

I mean, NS doesn't really give much of a fuck about nonbinary rights, let's not kid ourselves. NS wants independence, wants to look progressive, wants to polish the appearance of Scotland as a young nation. It's signalling, that's all.

I daresay some of the people leaving are just seeing through how the trans/GRA issue is being used as a political trophy. There's not actually any conviction behind it for most career politicians.

Looking at it like this, I actually empathise with one of the TRAs ranting on Twitter last night - who can see quite clearly how this issue is being used.

economists (even their own) agree we’d face at least a decade of severe austerity if we were daft enough to vote for independence.

We face that anyway, thanks to Brexit, which as most know the Scottish people didn't want.

I'm really unsure about independence now. The SNP seem disastrously badly run and I find the internal machinations really concerning, despite NS' consummate performances.

But a future tied to a rUK outwith Europe and weighed down by an equally disastrously incapable Tory govt is also not a rosy picture.

Devil; deep blue sea. Here we are.

From what I saw Sarah was attempting to draw analogies about the culture of intolerance and the conditions it needs to thrive which of course in the 1930's onwards lead to the persecution of Jewish people.

I think the most she could be accused of is lacking sensitivity because Twitter is not a place of nuance or somewhere you can explore historical parallels with full context. I can understand it if some people felt her attempts were flippant and not respectful but it's not the same as anti-semitism in my opinion.

If you remember when Rosa Freedman called out a TRA for doing pretty much this and appropriating the Holocaust for their argument it was in fact her and a female Plaid Cymru MP who were strongly criticised sent threatening abusive tweets and messages for saying it was antisemitic! To go all DM, you couldn't make it up!

I'm not sure how old you are Arabella but my understanding is that the SNP moved to the left in the mid 70s with the election of Margot MacDonald who was a wonderful socialist feminist politician representing one of the most deprived areas of Scotland

I think it’s weird that sturgeon doesn’t condem the abuse that both Joanna and Joan get from within her own party

It’s really confusing

Joanna had to hav3 police protection but some tra leave the party and she takes time to make a video

@littlbrowndog

I think it’s weird that sturgeon doesn’t condem the abuse that both Joanna and Joan get from within her own party

It’s really confusing

Joanna had to hav3 police protection but some tra leave the party and she takes time to make a video

I wonder if she doesn't know about it. I'd guess she is genuinely quite busy at the moment and doesn't have time to be on Twitter and see random SNP members flouncing.

I think she must have someone trusted whispering in her ear.

@HubertHerbert

I'm not sure how old you are Arabella but my understanding is that the SNP moved to the left in the mid 70s with the election of Margot MacDonald who was a wonderful socialist feminist politician representing one of the most deprived areas of Scotland

I'm middle aged. Maybe it depends where you are/were based? I grew up in rural farming communities, and knew Alex Salmond as most prominent SNP politician. Wouldn't call him especially 'left'. But like I said, I wasn't hugely aware of all the ins and outs of the SNP until more recently.

I think you are on the spot there. Maybe the SNP hasn’t changed much where you live. In the cities it certainly has.

Sure she does.

It was a while ago for Joanna

Was in the newspapers

@WhatstheTruthRuth

I think the statement came out of a state of panic. It MUST be about a fear of losing the youth vote? I’m not on Twitter anymore because I can’t stand the manufactured rows and the level of ‘argument’.

But this is odd. Of course no one wants any group of people to be denied rights or be victimised but why is the FM seemingly ignoring the majority of women within her party who just want to ring fence some protections for women as per the Equality Act 2010? Why is this interpreted as anti-trans. The amendments to the Hate Crime Bill have been suggested so that the discussions can take place around these rights without fear of being criminalised - and this has been interpreted as ‘transphobes’ wanting to persecute the transgender community?! Why does it always have to descend into this mess of teeth-gnashing and wailing? The histrionics are staggering. And then of course all the Ultra right-wing, objectionable, homophobes and racists see it as an opportunity to stick the boot in and then the hard-of-thinking lump all the people wanting respectful dialogue about women’s rights in with them. And round and round it goes.

I’m disappointed with NS. This does nothing but alienate huge swathes of her female electorate. I voted for SNP after being a Labour voter all my adult life. I cannot bring myself to vote SNP in this climate. Show some compassion and understanding of the subtleties of this issue - at least have some dialogue with ForWomen Scotland and show you’re giving this issue proper, thoughtful consideration and aren’t just responding to the crowd that’s shouting loudest.

Exactly this. Long term Labour voter who switched to SNP mainly because I liked how Nicola was performing as leader. What's important for me is what she didn't say last night: not a word of support for women suffering abuse on social media for defending their sex-based rights. Nothing. My opinion of her has taken a real hit. I saw her interview Chimamanda Ngozie at the Book Fest a few years ago and I stupidly hoped that she was more more on Chimamanda's side on this issue. Sad to see I was wrong. I won't vote SNP and unless Andy Wightman sets up an independent party that supports sex-based rights, I won't be voting.

@ArrabellaScott
You say Devil and the deep blue sea, if forgotten that one, ive been meeting "between a rock and a hard place" and "out of the frying pan into the fire".

to my shame i dont know much about scottish politics but always liked how sturgeon came across.

not anymore- shes an idiot.

BuffysBigSister you can vote for the ISP. They are female led and support women. Better than not voting even if they don't get a seat.

I also voted SNP at the last election after being a life long Labour supporter, in the main because I liked Nicola Sturgeons leadership.
Very disappointed in how she has handled all of this, she appears to be frightened of alienating the youth vote to the point where she seems to mean nothing to no-one.
For the first time in my life I suspect I wi be spoiling my ballot paper in May

its interesting how the wokeys try and get anti-semitism and racist label stuck alongside the transphobic one. its like they know transphobic is too slippery so they need to try something a bit more substantial.

God typos galore!
There's some good analysis on this thread so i won't add my own clumsy efforts but will just say that i too dont know who to vote for apart from Andy Wightman as I also share his concerns about Land reform.

@BlackForestCake

Well, those who are against independence have nothing to fear now.

How does anyone imagine people as narcissistic and fragile as the wokey faction are going to lead a struggle against the British state?

Unfortunately there may still be a sufficient number of deluded separatists for whom "freedom" is more important than anything in real life.

Oh and by the way Scotland’s Covid figures are no better than England's. Population wise the 2 countries' figures are about the same.

A straight comparison obscures the fact Sturgeon only has one major city to take care of whose figures are abysmal, so this "she has done so much better than Johnson" mantra is nonsense.

[quote Wbeezer]@ArrabellaScott
You say Devil and the deep blue sea, if forgotten that one, ive been meeting "between a rock and a hard place" and "out of the frying pan into the fire".[/quote]
In my head the deep blue sea is Conservative blue.

I liked how Nicola was performing as leader. What's important for me is what she didn't say last night: not a word of support for women suffering abuse on social media for defending their sex-based rights. Nothing. My opinion of her has taken a real hit. I saw her interview Chimamanda Ngozie at the Book Fest a few years ago and I stupidly hoped that she was more more on Chimamanda's side on this issue. Sad to see I was wrong.

I see Sturgeon as a good performer and quite canny about optics. I'm afraid I'm cynical of her having any particular conviction about anything - she's a consummate politician. I do admire her ability but I wouldn't trust her for a moment.