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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Nicola Sturgeon throws Joanna Cherry under the bus

313 replies

Whatdoyoudowhendemocracyfails · 27/01/2021 21:05

twitter.com/nicolasturgeon/status/1354521063502336001?s=21

Personal statement condemning transphobia in response to the number of young members leaving and giving this as their reason.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
8
Amortentia · 01/02/2021 14:45

@MissBarbary

4.Life expectancy at birth in UK countries

Each of the UK constituent countries experienced either an increase in life expectancy at birth in 2017 to 2019 compared with 2016 to 2018 or saw life expectancy remain unchanged when measured in years. England continued to have the highest life expectancy at birth for males and females, while Scotland continued to have the lowest for both sexes

www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/healthandlifeexpectancies/bulletins/lifeexpectancyforlocalareasoftheuk/between2001to2003and2017to2019

And this is despite significantly higher public speaking per capita in Scotland compared to England.

Scotland has always had a lower life expectancy compared to England. There is also something called the Glasgow Effect, and even the middle classes die younger than other parts of the UK. There have been lots of research done to find the reasons behind why this might be the case, but part of it is deprivation, 10 years of austerity on top of the other reasons for this problem don't help. So not exactly the fault of the SNP. Also, spending costs have always been higher here due to the complexities of delivering health care to remote areas. The central belt is one of the most densely populated parts of the UK, but Scotland is probably the least densely populated country in Europe.

Apologies for the essay but it drives me nuts when people want to have a go at the Scottish government about an issue that massively predates its existence and is so complex that even after significant research we're still not sure how to fix this issue. I'm sure there are much better things to go after the SNP, but it's not this.

RozWatching · 01/02/2021 14:47

@NecessaryScene1

Looks like there's a new clear dividing line in Scottish politics, as here's what the new party on the scene put out today:

twitter.com/HJoyceGender/status/1356216226054344707

(How long until this becomes a fundamental party difference in other places?)

Wow. Hopefully it's not just for the election.
NecessaryScene1 · 01/02/2021 14:53

Scotland is probably the least densely populated country in Europe.

Stats nerd checking in for fact check.

According to this and this it would be the 38th densest out of 49 at 67/km², putting it between Bosnia and Bulgaria, and close to Ireland.

It's a lot denser than the bottom 4: Sweden (23/km²), Finland (16/km²), Norway (14/km²) and finally Iceland (3.5/km²).

Total population of Scotland is about the same as Finland or Norway, but it's got a lot easier geography and climate.

NecessaryScene1 · 01/02/2021 14:59

Although I do agree on the point that services in Scotland will always be more expensive than England and Wales, because of much lower density.

I just disagree with those who seem to think Scottish independence is somehow fundamentally totally implausible due to its demographics. 2 Nordic countries with the same number of people spread a lot thinner seem be coping fine.

WouldBeGood · 01/02/2021 15:10

I think it’s easier if your immediate neighbour is in the Schengen area.

Amortentia · 01/02/2021 15:10

@NecessaryScene1

Scotland is probably the least densely populated country in Europe.

Stats nerd checking in for fact check.

According to this and this it would be the 38th densest out of 49 at 67/km², putting it between Bosnia and Bulgaria, and close to Ireland.

It's a lot denser than the bottom 4: Sweden (23/km²), Finland (16/km²), Norway (14/km²) and finally Iceland (3.5/km²).

Total population of Scotland is about the same as Finland or Norway, but it's got a lot easier geography and climate.

Badly worded but what i meant was this - Most of the population of Scotland live in the central belt making it very densely populated. Outwith the central belt, the rest of the population are very scattered and makes population density very low. That population are on islands so I would disagree that the geography and climate are easier to manage. We may get less snow but when you are reliant on ferries and they cant operate fully then you have difficulty with access. Also, the road network across the highlands is bloody awful for transporting goods.
vivariumvivariumsvivaria · 01/02/2021 15:26

You know that scene in Pretty Woman where Julia Roberts says "big mistake, huge" to the snobby shop assistant?

That's where the SNP are at.

An independent Cherry will be a force to be reckoned with.

Whatdoyoudowhendemocracyfails · 01/02/2021 15:38

@NecessaryScene1

Looks like there's a new clear dividing line in Scottish politics, as here's what the new party on the scene put out today:

twitter.com/HJoyceGender/status/1356216226054344707

(How long until this becomes a fundamental party difference in other places?)

Excellent casting of “angry man” - they have clearly noticed that the wokebros tend to be bearded...
OP posts:
NecessaryScene1 · 01/02/2021 15:54

I think it’s easier if your immediate neighbour is in the Schengen area.

Aye. But at least Scotland wouldn't have a 830-mile border with Russia in uninhabited forest.

Outwith the central belt, the rest of the population are very scattered and makes population density very low.

Mmm, but don't assume other countries are evenly distributed. Finland is massively concentrated in the south around Helsinki. There's one 200,000-population city half-way up, and nothing bigger than 100,000 north of that. And I think Norway's basically the same, but with more fjords (whatever they are).

We may get less snow but when you are reliant on ferries and they cant operate fully then you have difficulty with access.

Certainly islands makes things tougher - Finland does have a lot of islands (possibly more than Scotland), but not as many big ones, so maybe 1/10th of the non-mainland population.

Plus in winter you can just drive to a lot of Finnish islands :)

Amortentia · 01/02/2021 16:46

@NecessaryScene1

I think it’s easier if your immediate neighbour is in the Schengen area.

Aye. But at least Scotland wouldn't have a 830-mile border with Russia in uninhabited forest.

Outwith the central belt, the rest of the population are very scattered and makes population density very low.

Mmm, but don't assume other countries are evenly distributed. Finland is massively concentrated in the south around Helsinki. There's one 200,000-population city half-way up, and nothing bigger than 100,000 north of that. And I think Norway's basically the same, but with more fjords (whatever they are).

We may get less snow but when you are reliant on ferries and they cant operate fully then you have difficulty with access.

Certainly islands makes things tougher - Finland does have a lot of islands (possibly more than Scotland), but not as many big ones, so maybe 1/10th of the non-mainland population.

Plus in winter you can just drive to a lot of Finnish islands :)

I think the problems that Finland and Norway face aren't all that different from Scotland. Even the climate is fairly similar. Which is why I said public funding had to be higher in Scotland because the demographics and topography make it more difficult compared to England. I'm always startled by just how many people and motorways exist when you get past Carlisle 🤣
WouldBeGood · 01/02/2021 16:51

Apparently, Cherry’s replacement, Anne McLaughlin, is in a relationship with one of the NEC guts who voted for self identifying disability... it’s so sleazy and nepotistic

donquixotedelamancha · 01/02/2021 16:52

Sadly it looks as though OP was prescient. I must say I assumed that bland statement by NS was meaningless.

It's a bit pathetic to replace an accomplished QC who has probably achieved more victories against the Tories than the rest of the Westminster SNPs put together with a lifelong party apparatchik who has.

I struggle to see that such an obvious sacking from fear will shore up NS's position- perhaps she figures that having blocked her becoming a SMP it's the least bad time.

WouldBeGood · 01/02/2021 16:57

Wings is predicting that it’s the death throes for the Sturgeon regime

Abhannmor · 01/02/2021 16:58

Hope the SNP is not going to crash and burn like the Irish Home Rule Party did over the Parnell divorce case. They were looking at a landslide victory in May as well. A cynic might even suspect the hidden hand of MI5 in all this chaos.

MissBarbary · 01/02/2021 17:25

@Abhannmor

Hope the SNP is not going to crash and burn like the Irish Home Rule Party did over the Parnell divorce case. They were looking at a landslide victory in May as well. A cynic might even suspect the hidden hand of MI5 in all this chaos.
I sincerely hope so.
MissBarbary · 01/02/2021 17:27

It's a bit pathetic to replace an accomplished QC who has probably achieved more victories against the Tories than the rest of the Westminster SNPs put together with a lifelong party apparatchik who has

The SNP vote and act en masse. I very much doubt Cherry achieved anything on her own.

RozWatching · 01/02/2021 17:29

@WouldBeGood

Apparently, Cherry’s replacement, Anne McLaughlin, is in a relationship with one of the NEC guts who voted for self identifying disability... it’s so sleazy and nepotistic
Of course she is.

Apparently Fiona Robertson intends to go for the North East list. How likely is she to win?
It's the same Fiona Robertson who, um, defended Yaniv's womanhood, right?

www.heraldscotland.com/news/17800511.report-says-trans-lobbying-groups-captured-public-policy-putting-women-girls-risk/

"SNP's National Women’s and Equalities Convener Fiona Robertson faced significant criticism online, including from SNP supporters, after she described a controversial Canadian trans activist as a “female predator” and said Jessica Yaniv should not be misgendered"

littlbrowndog · 01/02/2021 17:48

Trending on Twitter. 1 in Scotland 3 in uk

Tootsweets23 · 01/02/2021 17:52

This by Stephen Daisley is very good, especially for those interested in how the party got to here https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/sturgeon-s-purge-why-joanna-cherry-had-to-go/amp?twitterrimpression=true

Whatdoyoudowhendemocracyfails · 01/02/2021 18:14

@donquixotedelamancha

Sadly it looks as though OP was prescient. I must say I assumed that bland statement by NS was meaningless.

It's a bit pathetic to replace an accomplished QC who has probably achieved more victories against the Tories than the rest of the Westminster SNPs put together with a lifelong party apparatchik who has.

I struggle to see that such an obvious sacking from fear will shore up NS's position- perhaps she figures that having blocked her becoming a SMP it's the least bad time.

I take no joy in it. But it was clear to me that NS had picked her side, and it wasn’t Cherry.
OP posts:
nevertrustaherdofcows · 01/02/2021 18:22

From the Speccie:

"Why indeed. Well, there are three strikes against Cherry. One, she was and remains an outspoken supporter of Alex Salmond, the predecessor, mentor and, until a few years ago, iron-tight ally of Nicola Sturgeon. In 2018, Sturgeon’s government launched an investigation into allegations of sexual harassment against Salmond but was ordered to pay his legal fees after the Court of Session ruled the probe had been ‘unlawful’, ‘procedurally unfair’ and ‘tainted by apparent bias’. Salmond was subsequently tried on 13 charges of sexual assault but was cleared on all counts by a jury at the High Court in Edinburgh. A Scottish parliamentary inquiry into how the Scottish government conducted itself is now in its final stages and Salmond is expected to appear before it as a witness next week.

The second strike against Cherry is more straightforward: she is sometimes talked up as a potential successor or challenger to Sturgeon as SNP leader. Cherry tried to seek selection for a Scottish parliament seat last year but dropped out of the race after a party rule change that would have forced her to quit as an MP first.

But perhaps Cherry’s biggest sin is that she is a gender-critical feminist. She has challenged the capture of the SNP by trans rights activists (referred to by internal foes as ‘the wokies’), which has seen the party pursue a host of previously fringe policies, from removing medical experts from the gender identity process to allowing biological males to count as ‘female’ appointments to public boards. Nicola Sturgeon in particular has embraced this ideology with the fervour of a woman who really wants to be called ‘progressive’ by Gen-Z Twitter activists with blue hair. After a number of younger members quit the SNP last week, Sturgeon put out a video pleading with them to ‘come home where you belong’ while the party issued a statement saying: ‘We are sorry that we’ve let you down and today pledge ourselves to change’. This came amid a string of leaks to the grassroots pro-independence blog 'Wings over Scotland' documenting the next stages of what old-guard nationalists consider the woke takeover of the SNP.

Announcing ‘his’ reshuffle today, Sturgeon’s Westminster footman Ian Blackford said ‘team working and cooperation are key to ensure results’, a statement that doesn’t require much reading between the lines. It speaks to an intolerance of dissent inside the SNP, a party which once prided itself on its love of a good rammy. The SNP under Sturgeon is infinitely more presidential, managerial, and clique-driven than New Labour under Tony Blair. (At least New Labour believed in — and, more importantly, did — things.)"

TheABC · 01/02/2021 18:26

I really hope one of the other parties recruits her. From a UK-wide perspective, we need that sort of political talent.

Whatdoyoudowhendemocracyfails · 01/02/2021 18:29

@WouldBeGood

Apparently, Cherry’s replacement, Anne McLaughlin, is in a relationship with one of the NEC guts who voted for self identifying disability... it’s so sleazy and nepotistic
And who should have recused himself from the vote as he would directly benefit from the change in policy.

It’s almost a deliberate kick in the teeth.

OP posts:
Cismyfatarse · 01/02/2021 18:58

According to wings over Scotland Murrell has "declined" to testify again. The Rev is calling on the committee to force him to return and testify under oath.

WouldBeGood · 01/02/2021 19:30

Joanna Cherry has now received a threat. This us terrible.

Nicola Sturgeon throws Joanna Cherry under the bus