'Transwomen' (though not 'transmen' welcome at Ann Summers parties. Love balls.

[Defaultname]

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9179371/Ann-Summer-chief-says-transgender-women-welcome-sales-parties-wants-empower-them.html

What is this obsession with ‘transphobia’? Women have every right to expect an Ann Summers party would be single-sex.

No one is saying encountering male participants there would be as bad as in, say, a rape-crisis centre or a hospital ward. It’s just one more thing that women must not be allowed to have for ourselves.

@littlbrowndog

I have never been to one. But if I was going and they said it was just for women

I would leave if men were there

The point is, you'd be free to do that. It's a party, no one is being conscripted.

The point is if the host said it was for women only and men were there.

That is the point 🤷‍♀️

@littlbrowndog

The point is if the host said it was for women only and men were there.

That is the point 🤷‍♀️

I could see it happening if it was an invite from a work colleague, one that you didn't know really well. Not everyone (for a variety of reasons) discusses their personal beliefs and politics at work. I may very well have very woke workmates and not know it.

However, honestly, this is not the biggest priority for me when it comes to women-only spaces

Nor mine. It still has symbolic currency though and sends a message about women only spaces.

@YetAnotherSpartacus

However, honestly, this is not the biggest priority for me when it comes to women-only spaces

Nor mine. It still has symbolic currency though and sends a message about women only spaces.

Exactly.

It still has symbolic currency though and sends a message about women only spaces.

I think a typical person reading this thread will be so busy rolling their eyes at the notion that Ann Summers parties are being invaded by trans women that they won't bother to listen when real concerns are raised about single sex prisons, refuges and the like.

The point is if the host said it was for women only and men were there.

That is the point

Yes. The gaslighting needs to stop, in whatever circumstances.

I think many women will see this and wonder why the dishonesty is needed. What's the big deal with making AS parties mixed sex? Why the need for euphemisms like 'trans women' at all? It just makes it look like there's something to hide.

Exactly. Open them up to all men, in theory. Individuals can decide. But the expectation of a mixed sex space should be given.

With the Scots references, I had to check if the Burns' Night poem was inclusive, but gave up at the second line:

Great chieftain of the sausage race! www.robertburns.org.uk/Assets/Poems_Songs/toahaggis.htm

For the Anne Summers parties, they can make 'em both-sex events if they like. The effect would be pretty much the same as keeping them single-sex, but with self-identification...

Women means women and we need that protected in any and all areas. Even ones we’d baulk at the idea of attending

Even at an Ann Summers party, where it's full of adults, attending a party/maybe having a few drinks and a laugh together?
It's not a safe guarding issue in this respect.

Women means women and we need that protected in any and all areas. Even ones we’d baulk at the idea of attending

Even at...

Which bit of women means women do you not understand Quaagers?

Personally, I am not interested in the ridiculous "sexy" underwear and goods industry. It's simply not part of my life.

But were I to attend a party which was billed as "women only", that's what I would expect.

Why do think some men should be included when others aren't?

But were I to attend a party which was billed as "women only", that's what I would expect.

Surely that would be between you and the host?

This site is quite interesting, apparently men are 'discouraged' from attending but not banned. I'm sure a rogue husband or boyfriend would be more likely to be there than a TW but nobody seems concerned about that.

www.theanswerbank.co.uk/Body-and-Soul/Question439019.html

Which bit of women means women do you not understand Quaagers?

Why have you quoted me, completely ignored what I actually said, and come out with that in response?
I do understand that women means women.
As Sapphos said, it's up to the host who they invite to the party.
Where though, where you've conveniently ignored the point I made, which is why do women need protecting and safeguarding in a party environment full of other adults partying too?

I'm sure a rogue husband or boyfriend would be more likely to be there than a TW but nobody seems concerned about that
true!

I quoted you quaagars because as soon as a woman said "women means women" you want to find the exception.

And no, Sappho, the words "women only party" doesn't change meaning according to who says it or which party.

I quoted you quaagars because as soon as a woman said "women means women" you want to find the exception

Because in this scenario, which is what the thread is about, an Ann Summers party, nothing else, why is it safeguarding issue or where we need protecting there?

If a bloke wants to take part in a Glamorous Granny contest (or have I been watching too much 'Hi-de-Hi'?-then that can genuinely be a laff. If Butlins (or Maplins) announce that any man who takes part is a woman, as part of a company and national trend to include men in the catagory 'women', that's different.
Some women at AS parties might be quite keen on men attending, I suspect quite a few wouldn;t be. Same with any 'Hen Party', I suppose.

In terms of numbers, I'd guess that there might be more AS atendees per annum than there are women bathing in the Hamstead open-air pool.

I have absolutely no interest in Ann Summers parties. I find the thought of discussing advanced lingerie and sex toys with other people appalling, male or female.

Having said that, as long as they state trans women and women, I don’t really see the issue with it.

If it was a make-up class (still unlikely that I would attend, but possible), I wouldn’t mind at all if trans women attended. They would probably be better at make-up than I am.

I just think it needs to be open. I have a friend who wears the hijab (which she only will take off at home with only women) and who does not touch males (except her husband), even to shake hands. I doubt she would attend an ann summers party, but possibly, possibly a female only make-up party. I could see her having issues if the make up artist was a trans woman. Language is important, even in non safeguarding situations.

I'm sure a rogue husband or boyfriend would be more likely to be there than a TW but nobody seems concerned about that

A blanket ‘some women might be embarrassed’ covered that in my mind

I think some women might be embarrassed if a man or someone they perceived as a man was there

I’m not concerned personally whether it was a transwoman, or a man....as I wouldn’t be there in the first place

(Unless i fall for a trick and find myself at a party accidentally again. But i am both older and wiser people, older AND wiser)

I can say with certainty that my husband would rather get kicked in the shin than walk into an AS party with women discussing sex toys. 😆😆

I can say with certainty that my husband would rather get kicked in the shin than walk into an AS party with women discussing sex toys

lol, very true, mine would be the same

I'm a keen reader of the Transwidows' thread and can imagine how some of the partners or ex partners there might react to this and what kind of awkward position transwidows would be in.

To be honest, as long as the language is clear, I do not see the harm at all.

I agree that certain women won’t be comfortable with having trans women there. These are private parties, they can choose not to come or arrange their own party. Some women may have a lot of fun with trans women there. Some women may have a lot of fun with all kind of males there. Good for them, everyone is happy.

This is completely different to prisons, shelters, prisons, changing rooms and sports where women a) cannot choose and b) are vulnerable or at a disadvantage.

But again, language is key in order to offer a choice.