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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

'Transwomen' (though not 'transmen' welcome at Ann Summers parties. Love balls.

182 replies

Defaultname · 23/01/2021 22:19

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9179371/Ann-Summer-chief-says-transgender-women-welcome-sales-parties-wants-empower-them.html

OP posts:
Quaagars · 24/01/2021 14:02

Sorry, for clarity my last post was in reference to this comment

Most 'sexy' underwear is designed not to turn a woman on but to cater to men's porn fantasies

SqueakyCarrots · 24/01/2021 14:03

Aspiring there is nothing derisive about any tone, it’s laughing at ourselves stuck in this situation.

Even if there was, hurt feelings does not equal our very lives being at risk in so many very harmful ways once legal rights protections are gone. Keep it in perspective because you’re a spit away from ‘let’s just be kind’ by the sounds of it.

RufustheSniggeringReindeer · 24/01/2021 14:04
  • You said you invite friends and family to the parties. Which you do, yes. The poster was just pointing out anyone going to these parties could be indulging in their fetishes/fantasies, so so what if someone is trans? When biological women would be doing the exact same thing? There is a 1950s attitude to some of these posts, assuming the women there get easily embarrassed, aren't indulging fantasies etcThink that's what the poster meant anyway, that's how I read it*

Thank you quaggers

RufustheSniggeringReindeer · 24/01/2021 14:05

@YetAnotherSpartacus

I had to get chips on the walk home i was that stressed

You are so full of excuses today!

I am 😀
Quaagars · 24/01/2021 14:05

I say again, you have no idea what is going on inside anyone's head at an event like this. You are making assumptions based on:
Male or transwoman: Potential festishist Woman: Person who would never dream of having sexual thoughts about anyone else

Exactly
Assumptions everywhere
Also can feel an attack of the vapours coming on at women having sexy thoughts here lol

Defaultname · 24/01/2021 14:05

I have no issue watever with men wearing ladies' undies, or even going Commando to the shops while fantasising that they've changed sex.
I do have an issue with anyone saying "These men are women and must be trated as such".
Maybe mixed-sex AS parties are a good idea. Just be honest about what you're doing.
Whenever anyone outrages rationality it needs to be called out, even if
it's in a frivolous area such as waxing or AS events. Men are not women; not least in their phisiology.

OP posts:
Defaultname · 24/01/2021 14:06

Oops 'physiology'.

OP posts:
OldFolksTalkinBoutBackinMyDay2 · 24/01/2021 14:08

@Quaagars

Also wondering how wearing sexy underwear is for the men, to indulge their fetishes?! Can we not wear it for US, because it makes us feel good?! Admittedly, I'm more Bridget Jones type ones now lol but still Grin

Like you I am learning about sexual fetishes. Isn't it great!

Aspiringmatriarch · 24/01/2021 14:08

@SqueakyCarrots

Was actually replying to your other post aspiring but it answers your next question also.

Yes tw eroding women only anywhere is the problem. They are more than welcome at anything that isn’t woman only, but they can’t change the meaning of our words even in seemingly irrelevant and unimportant areas like Ann summers mlms.

‘Trotting along’ because they see femininity as props to become a woman, so wear heels. It’s tongue in cheek, but again that doesn’t seem to translate well.

Sorry I didn't see this post Carrots. OK, so 'trotting along' is tongue in cheek, didn't read that way to me particularly but fair enough.

'They see femininity as props to become a woman'. All of them? Really? Again this comes across to me as a sweeping, negative generalisation which isn't necessary to base any arguments on re female-only spaces. So yes I do view that as fairly obviously transphobic. But I guess maybe it's a bit like being racist - nobody thinks they are, and everyone points at the more extreme examples as proof.

Tbh having read through this thread I have more sympathy with the idea that it may not be safe or appropriate to include transwomen in this instance, but there is absolutely transphobia on display as well.

SqueakyCarrots · 24/01/2021 14:10

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

SqueakyCarrots · 24/01/2021 14:13

If they don’t see femininity as props to be their idea of a woman then how exactly do they ‘feel like a woman’.

Femininity is just the sex role stereotypes women are subjected too. Perhaps you misunderstand words?

Oh no you compared us to racists, ah no you suggest we are boogies!?!? Appealing to female sex role stereotypes to silence women won’t work here.

SqueakyCarrots · 24/01/2021 14:14

Haha bigots!! Fricken typos

Deliriumoftheendless · 24/01/2021 14:15

@MichelleofzeResistance

Go for it, have fun, wtf not if you'd enjoy it? Confused There's always tupperwear parties too.
I do t think Tupperware parties exist anymore, which is a shame as I love Tupperware.
Ereshkigalangcleg · 24/01/2021 14:17

Should all males be allowed to attend Ann Summers parties? At least then everyone would know where they stood.

Defaultname · 24/01/2021 14:23

@Ereshkigalangcleg

Should all males be allowed to attend Ann Summers parties? At least then everyone would know where they stood.
In about half the cases 'standing' might be literally true!

If I've got Anne Summers' policy right, the only way one group of 'trans' people woukd be welcome-'transmen'-would be if the parties were inclusive of both sexes.

OP posts:
LApprentiSorcier · 24/01/2021 14:24

@Ereshkigalangcleg

Should all males be allowed to attend Ann Summers parties? At least then everyone would know where they stood.
I would go along with that. These are not open-invitation parties, after all, so it should be for the host to invite who they want.
Aspiringmatriarch · 24/01/2021 14:27

@SqueakyCarrots

If they don’t see femininity as props to be their idea of a woman then how exactly do they ‘feel like a woman’.

Femininity is just the sex role stereotypes women are subjected too. Perhaps you misunderstand words?

Oh no you compared us to racists, ah no you suggest we are boogies!?!? Appealing to female sex role stereotypes to silence women won’t work here.

Disagree that femininity/gender is purely sex role stereotypes but I'm aware this is the dominant view on here. I don't actually understand the last bit of your post but ok. Think I'll leave the thread now as it's full of the usual unpleasant tropes and clearly pretty baked in so not sure why I bothered expressing a view to start with!
Quaagars · 24/01/2021 14:29

Disagree that femininity/gender is purely sex role stereotypes

Same
But because we disagree it must be because we're not understanding words!
Er, no - We Just. Don't. Agree. With You.

SqueakyCarrots · 24/01/2021 14:32

Actually the fact that sex role stereotypes are socialised was the dominant academic thinking a good 30 years ago when I did my degree. There’s god knows how much social studies to back it up. So much literature on the subject.

Thinking females are born submissive and gentle and caring is akin to flat earth theory.

The dominant view on here is to believe science. So we don’t buy aromatherapy cures cancer or that autism is caused by vaccines or that climate change is a myth. Believing science, and social sciences where science wouldn’t be ethical, is no different when it comes to sex and sex role stereotypes socialisation.

MaudTheInvincible · 24/01/2021 14:34

Disagree that femininity/gender is purely sex role stereotypes

What is your definition of femininity?

'Transwomen' (though not 'transmen' welcome at Ann Summers parties. Love balls.
Datun · 24/01/2021 14:35

If Ann Summers wants to include males in their parties, then that's fine, as long as everyone knows they are mixed sex.

You can't say it's for women, if it's for both sexes.

And yes, many women wouldn't go if men were there.

The whole idea is to be able to discuss the merchandise away from males.

ThePankhurstConnection · 24/01/2021 14:36

These are parties designed to sell things. I imagine anyone is welcome really - it's capitalism Wink

Quaagars · 24/01/2021 14:36

Thinking females are born submissive and gentle and caring is akin to flat earth theory

OK, and I agree there - women don't have to be submissive, gentle, caring.
We're all different, all individual people.
What you seem to fail to see though is that there is nothing wrong with femininity, that it isn't a bad thing, and women can want to be feminine FOR THEMSELVES and that has nothing to do with wanting to do it for the men.

Fuckingcrustybread · 24/01/2021 14:39

Yep - nothing to do with self ID etc, more having a laugh "where do you put the love eggs" etc
Nice
Not
It's not transphobic here though, oh no
Apparently
That's a new one and definitely a made up one. Laughing and taking the piss online is now transphobic. Fuck me, you learn something every day!
I have been to an AS party, many years ago, I thought it was quite tacky and really not my style. I wouldn't like to go to one with men present.

despairenting · 24/01/2021 14:43

Meh. This doesn't bother me at all. They're private parties, right? Why shouldn't transwomen be welcome to go to parties with their friends if they want to go and their friends want them there? It's not some sacred female space where women will be disadvantaged if transwomen are there.