Biden has completely obliterated woman’s sex based protections as he said he would do.

[yourfaceisaforeignfood]

www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/presidential-actions/2021/01/20/executive-order-preventing-and-combating-discrimination-on-basis-of-gender-identity-or-sexual-orientation/

“Children should be able to learn without worrying about whether they will be denied access to the restroom, the locker room, or school sports."

Biden just passed all the worst parts of the Equality Act by executive order (so without going through any legislation at all). It is limited in effect to agencies (I think) but those agencies include the Bureau of Prisons, Dept of Housing and Urban Development, Dept of Education, Dept of Labor etc

This will of course be unchallenged, even welcomed by the media. It will likely have a knock on effect around the world.

And I am so angry. So so angry. He was never the ‘least worst option’ he is the absolute worst option.

As Abigail Shriner says
twitter.com/abigailshrier/status/1352121732723666946?s=21

It's laughable, that we are indulging globally the contemptuous arrogance of men who think that stealing the word that distinguishes the opposite sex from them dissolves the distinction between the sexes.

Ah, but I'm calling myself a woman, checkmate sister.

Exactly this. My bold.

The case where a mum discriminated against for breastfeeding in public that wasn’t upheld because ‘men can breastfeed too’ so it wasn’t sex discrimination

If you mean that American case that wasn't what the case was about. It looks as if sex discrimination was dragged in to prop up a weak constructive dismissal case.

There were some men who were exempt even the normal gatekeeping in place for other 'less special' men. Of course, that to become part of that special group was still open to all males. We're back to that now, but without the bother of even having to train for the priesthood.

That case was badly argued. US law, as does UK and EU law protects people who are pregnant and who lactate.

There are elements of being a mother or having people perceive that you might be now or in future that are often problematic for women and that don't fall under the protected characteristic of Pregnancy and Maternity, which I believe is quite a short window covering pregnancy through to a few months after birth. Anything else comes under direct or indirect sex discrimination. So the sex element is important however much we pretend that "people" can give birth and lactate.

Renee Richards won the right in court to play in the US women's open in 1977.

Y'see, the phrase "pretty much the world over" does allow for exceptions.

most women have barely even noticed

The ones who have noticed have been the most vulnerable: prisoners. Can I say "Barbie Kardashian" to counter your Ireland example? "Karen White" to counter your British one?

The point of sex-based rights isn't to protect "most women" (meaning "female of any age" here as per Equality Act 2010), but all women, including the ones who have committed crimes. "I'm all right Jack" doesn't cut it. "Most of us are alright Jack" doesn't cut it either. If one woman is harmed by a transwoman in her jail, that is one too many.

Let's put it another way, jj. How many female prisoners must be raped or sexually-assaulted by someone like Barbie Kardashian or Karen White before you'll decide that transwomen don't belong in women's prisons? How many women must be traumatised and possibly left injured, pregnant, or with an STI by a bepenised person they could not flee from before you will allow prisons to be single-sex? How many women do you consider to be acceptable collateral damage to spare bepenised people's feelings?

I want a number.

I want a number.

Place marking.

Not holding my breath though. I don’t have a death wish.

for the brilliant women here.

And don't give me the "women get raped outside jail all the time, what's th difference" bullshit. We are talking about extremely vulnerable women in state custody, many of whom have a history of being sexually and/or physically abused already. The state has chosen to take responsibility for these women and has a duty of care towards them, which means not locking them up with people who have the means to make them pregnant. Prison is not like life outside where we can modify our livestyles to mitigate risks, these women have little if any control over their lives when inside and it is up to the state to make sure that they are safe. Rape is not part of the sentence.

@bd67thSaysReinstateLangCleg

And don't give me the "women get raped outside jail all the time, what's th difference" bullshit. We are talking about extremely vulnerable women in state custody, many of whom have a history of being sexually and/or physically abused already. The state has chosen to take responsibility for these women and has a duty of care towards them, which means not locking them up with people who have the means to make them pregnant. Prison is not like life outside where we can modify our livestyles to mitigate risks, these women have little if any control over their lives when inside and it is up to the state to make sure that they are safe. Rape is not part of the sentence.

There was a time when organisations like Amnesty International opposed state endorsed torture of prisoners including very specifically the rape of female prisoners. This is a matter of record. I was an active member then.

Now Amnesty has forgotten its roots and I am no longer a member.

jj interesting about Chris Mosier. I have just looked up that athlete.

As for mtf transitioners sometimes being beaten by women in sports, I think my feelings on the subject is this. Going through a male puberty confers an unfair advantage on an athlete when competing against women who have not had that advantage. It manifests itself in greater height, reach, bone density, skeletal structure etc.

That is not to say that a mtf trans athlete will beat a woman in every instance. It just increases the likelihood of them winning.

It's a bit like someone taking steroids to improve their performance in a sport but coming second to someone who hasn't taken steroids. That doesn't mean the steroid-taking is acceptable. Without the steroids they may have come 7th or 8th.

Also, I have heard of situations where you have athletes who transition later in life. After they have retired from competing as males they then compete with women and do very well. (I'm sorry, I don't have the specifics of these cases - not sure if anyone else does.) It is not necessarily surprising that a testosterone-suppressed, male-bodied sportsperson in their late 40s will sometimes lose to a woman in her mid-20s. However, if there are no female competitors in that sport still competing in their late 40s, that makes it hard to deny a continued physical advantage for people born male.

Renee Richards won the right in court to play in the US women's open in 1977.

And Richards now agrees with Martina Navratilova that it's unfair for males to play against women.

"It is just biology. Men have 10 times the amount of testosterone that normal women have... Now you want to get rid of that testosterone? O.K., but then it is going to take a couple of years for that to equilibrate. And men still have a larger frame with a larger cardiac output, a larger lung capacity."

www.si.com/tennis/2019/06/28/renee-richards-gender-identity-politics-transgender-where-are-they-now

@Thelnebriati

Why do you think that men (as in born men) would have rights to abortion? Its this sort of question that makes me question if trans activists either don't really understand or don't really believe the agenda they are pushing.

When you fight to remove all legal sex markers and make people indistinguishable, how could you tell who is 'really' a man and who is a trans man? On what legal grounds could you refuse an appointment to one and not the other?

I'v met more than one tra who is in the dark about what their acuatully advocating for (well the women, the men seeem to know full well iykwim). Most of them think genderism is advocating for what are actually radfem positions. One woman I met was actually doing a PHD in genderism!, and one minuite she was coming out with redfem arguements and the next it was spectrum blah blah. She was hoplessly confused between the two and seemed to have no understanding of the argument that eraising sex makes womens rights impossible.

Tbf genderist literature is written in a way that it means nothing, so can be interpreted by the reader to mean whatever someones wants it to mean. Peole invest their emotions in it, I think thats why they cant hear logic when it comes up against it.

What do you want women to say to you in reply? What is the joy and satisfaction you get out of coming here and telling women how much you don't care about them? What need are we meeting for you?

Bloody good questions Michelle.

@SqueakyCarrots

Why the fuck was that post controversial MN???

Why do you need a post that asks why a persons first response to seeing lies and slurs is to ‘provide balance’ rather than challenge said lies and slurs???

There’s nothing controversial about me posting that.

As I post this it's still not back. It doesn't take this long, come on Mumsnet!

Although your absence on such threads and those about puberty blockers/GIDS is noted...

Too right!

@jj1968

Girls don’t mind being excluded at the expense of other girls. Yes it’s fair, they know it is. No one minds.

Lots of feminists mind. There's a wealth of feminist literature criticising the exclusionary nature of competitive sports.

you just make shit up. Please quote with references.

I want a number. (too)

I half assumed dys

That maybe that was more about the pressures of things like dance/gymnastics where abuse and eating disorders and also dabbling with puberty blockers has been rife. There are lots of feminist aspects aspects sports to discuss. Males being included being one of them.
But prepare to read a million excuses as to why its apparently no different losing to a male than losing out to other girls.

The difference in the quality of the arguments!

Could someone start a thread 2 and link as this one's running out and will undoubtedly be ended by someone quickly chanting their mantra in a creepy way? (Reading quickly from work and don't want to lose track of it!)

I think jj enjoys the attention