Biden has completely obliterated woman’s sex based protections as he said he would do.

[yourfaceisaforeignfood]

www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/presidential-actions/2021/01/20/executive-order-preventing-and-combating-discrimination-on-basis-of-gender-identity-or-sexual-orientation/

“Children should be able to learn without worrying about whether they will be denied access to the restroom, the locker room, or school sports."

Biden just passed all the worst parts of the Equality Act by executive order (so without going through any legislation at all). It is limited in effect to agencies (I think) but those agencies include the Bureau of Prisons, Dept of Housing and Urban Development, Dept of Education, Dept of Labor etc

This will of course be unchallenged, even welcomed by the media. It will likely have a knock on effect around the world.

And I am so angry. So so angry. He was never the ‘least worst option’ he is the absolute worst option.

As Abigail Shriner says
twitter.com/abigailshrier/status/1352121732723666946?s=21

From the Spry Strategies national (US) poll commissioned by WoLF a few months ago, in response to the question:

Should boys and men who say they identify as transgender be allowed to compete in girls’ and women’s athletics?

54.1% of respondents chose "strongly disagree"
12.86% chose "somewhat disagree"
13.24% chose "unsure or no opinion"
11.43% chose "somewhat agree"
8.38% chose "strongly agree"

static1.squarespace.com/static/5f232ea74d8342386a7ebc52/t/5f989b7226098c04ac975eba/1603836792708/Nationwide_WOLF_10.16.20-Survey_Results-Smart_Charts.pdf

I suspect that if the wording had clarified that no medical treatment is required for male high school athletes to self-ID into girls' sports, the numbers would have been even more strongly against.

Nb, the entire poll showed Black and Latino/a respondents more likely than average to disagree with policies that let gender identity trump sex. So much for the constant accusations that any opposition to gender ideology is mere "white feminism."

You mean, where it repeats what I said and clarifies that the district is now represented by "two white men", jj?

@NotBadConsidering

Simple question jj, yes or no:

Do you think it’s fair on the girls in Connecticut that they have had to race against and lose to two biological males?

Honestly I'm not sure. I don't really know enough about the case. I think it probably needs to be looked at on a sport by sport basis, and that there should be more research done on the impact of hormones etc.

Personally I'd support radical reform of sports to make it much more inclusive of everyone and less about competitiveness. Sports lessons at school are a living hell for lots of kids and I think that should have a greater priority than who wins.

Given the dearth of top class transgender competitors in any sport though I'm not convinced though that trans inclusion is likely to mean the end of women's sports that people claim. I think that's more hyperbole. There has never been a trans Olympian, no trans women had been selected on the US team to compete at 2020 (although COVID halted the selections so the team was not complete).

I think when trans people are repeatedly being slurred and lied about as they often are on here then providing some balance is a good thing.

But it's not lies, is it? You might not like the evidence, you might not like women having these views, you spend a lot of time informing female people of what you feel they may say, feel, think, do, perceive and have.

Unfortunately female people and their realities aren't just going to go away. What's going on here is the balance to this endless onslaught on females, their rights, their lives and their views, which you illustrate by popping onto threads to remind them how much they are loathed and how unimportant they are in this political agenda.

And somehow you are so angry with them for not being ok about this.

I think when trans people are repeatedly being slurred and lied about as they often are on here then providing some balance is a good thing.

Hahahaha!!

Let's get this right. I don't remember it all, but off the top of my head, I believe you suggested that women defending their current legal rights could be accused of terrorism for finding out information on a website, had up for revenge porn by alerting women to a pervert in their toilets, be supporting bi-phobia because someone believed in, er, soulmates, and, hilariously, be responsible for the decimation of the tourist industry, and I believe a couple of days ago, we were suddenly being held responsible for jeopardising post brexit Anglo American trade deals.

But, you're only here to correct all the 'slurs and lies'!

The only thing I would ever ask JJ, is please keep it up.

I don’t know if gender identity was at all a factor but it is noticeable that Trump increased his share of the vote among African Americans and Latinos. Every single Democratic pres. candidate except Tulsi Gabbard, iirc, jumped on the TWAW wagon, even Bernie, who should know better.

This ideology is mostly embraced by white, wealthy Americans. It’s white patriarchy, just reconfigured for the 21st century. That’s the bigger picture, and acknowledging it is not disrespectful to individuals who may suffer from gender dysphoria.

Why the fuck was that post controversial MN???

Why do you need a post that asks why a persons first response to seeing lies and slurs is to ‘provide balance’ rather than challenge said lies and slurs???

There’s nothing controversial about me posting that.

Personally I'd support radical reform of sports to make it much more inclusive of everyone and less about competitiveness. Sports lessons at school are a living hell for lots of kids and I think that should have a greater priority than who wins

But that's the whole point of sports outside of pe lessons amd an after school session.

You think.jts better to remove the opportunity to compete and gain scholarships and the chance to go professional just to avoid saying NO to males?

Need to hide-typo

Given the dearth of top class transgender competitors in any sport though I'm not convinced though that trans inclusion is likely to mean the end of women's sports that people claim.

So as usual, until you, and male people, have incontrovertible evidence that serious enough harm has happened in significant enough amounts for male people to feel it's crossed their line, male people are going to pat female people on the head and send them out to suck it and see for the better happiness of male people.

What female people think, feel, need, and the right of female people to have their own sports and get changed in privacy?..... nah, not relevant, they're only females, right? Born to do what their betters tell them.

Do you really not get how utterly offensive this is, or do you just not care?

JJ, that’s really poor, “I don’t know enough about sport, and competitive sport is bad anyway”, who are you trying to kid???

Competitive sport is a huge industry, often a ticket to college in the US, there’s a lot at stake! And you just handwave it away.

The arguments are so crystal-clear, the vast disparity between male and female record holders in running or swimming, the fact that pre-SRS transwomen have only recently been allowed to compete in the female category by the IOC, and so on.

This is really disingenuous. Embarrassing.

Male people as a class having physical advantage over female people as a class isn't something that needs research. It's always been true and it's still true now.

Ok still don’t get what’s going on with posts.

So I’ll ask this again properly-

Jj- why when you see slurs and lies would your first response be to ‘provide balance’?

That’s seems very strange. If I see lies and slurs about women my first response would be to counter lies and slurs with facts. If I saw lies and slurs about disabled people I wouldn’t go around calling able bodied people names. If I saw racism I wouldn’t start insulting white skin to provide balance.

Providing balance instead of challenging lies and slurs comes across like you know they aren’t really lies or slurs.

Honestly I'm not sure. I don't really know enough about the case. I think it probably needs to be looked at on a sport by sport basis, and that there should be more research done on the impact of hormones etc.

What bull. Of course you know about the case. It’s been the most prominent case in years. It was linked in the Guardian article earlier. There have been countless threads in it. Although your absence on such threads and those about puberty blockers/GIDS is noted.

More research? Don’t make me laugh.

Personally I'd support radical reform of sports to make it much more inclusive of everyone and less about competitiveness.

Those two biological males could easily participate in sprinting without being competitive, in the boys’ competition. Do you support such inclusivity to allow gender non-conforming males to participate in boys’ and men’s sport without competitiveness being the focus? I would.

Given the dearth of top class transgender competitors in any sport though I'm not convinced though that trans inclusion is likely to mean the end of women's sports that people claim. I think that's more hyperbole. There has never been a trans Olympian, no trans women had been selected on the US team to compete at 2020 (although COVID halted the selections so the team was not complete).

I wrote this on another thread jj:

When two athletes were allowed to compete in Connecticut high school athletics, Selina Soule and every other girl whose place was lowered by one or two in every competition these athletes took part were disadvantaged. Same with CeCe Telfer.

Aussie rules has 18 players on each side. When Hannah Mouncey was allowed to play in the lower leagues, one of Mouncey’s teammates sat on the bench each game. Maybe another didn’t make the squad because their place on the bench was taken. All of Mouncey’s teammates were disadvantaged by having to share changing facilities. All of Mouncey’s opponents were disadvantaged by having to tackle Mouncey. Then multiply that by how many teams are in that league. Then add the umpires who were placed in a compromising legal position should any serious injury had happened to a woman. This is hundreds of women.

When Mouncey switched to handball, a woman didn’t get selected to represent Australia at the world championships because Mouncey was in the squad. A woman who made the squad didn’t get to start in the final. All of these women were disadvantaged by having to share facilities with Mouncey, something they complained about.

When McKinnon won at the Masters cycling championships, every woman below had their place moved down by one.

When Laurel Hubbard won weightlifting gold in Samoa, Feagaiga Stowers, an 18 year old indigenous Samoan woman, a survivor of abuse, was denied gold at her home games. Every other woman who finished below Hubbard had their place lowered by one.

And so on, and so on. Hundreds of women and girls affected negatively already by just six examples of transgender athletes. It doesn’t need to get any bigger, it’s already too big.

It’s not just the Olympics that matters. It’s not hyperbole. Do you care about these women and girls? Be honest.

What female people think, feel, need, and the right of female people to have their own sports and get changed in privacy?..... nah, not relevant, they're only females, right? Born to do what their betters tell them.

Many if not most women support trans inclusion to various degrees, there is no universal opinion. And there are plenty of women who think many gender critical positions are actively harmful to women. I suspect most seconfd wave feminists would have done and third wavers absolutely so. Certainly the positions often held on here are fringe to the point that most people who've looked regard this forum as akin to a conspiracy theory website. I don't think it is hateful or misogynist not to subscribe to your beliefs I'm afraid and I don't think trans inclusion harms women - something many many women agree with and in fact just voted for.

It harmed a woman who had to have her skull stapled after fighting a male opponent who openly brags about it.

Is that not harm?

As usual:

Women who think/feel/need/talk about issues with your politics

don't matter, as they are just a lunatic fringe. You'll listen only to the women who make the noises you like.

I do think that's extremely misogynist. And women are telling you in detail how they are being harmed: that you don't care, and don't want to believe them does not make it go away.

A recognition of biological sex and all it entails is not a fringe position. Nor is it a conspiracy theory.

You just don't like women. Your not alone in that of course but this dance you keep doing around the obvious is ridiculous.

It’s not just the Olympics that matters. It’s not hyperbole. Do you care about these women and girls? Be honest.

Yes, all of them, including the trans women. As such I think there should be more evidence if the current highly exclusionary nature of sport remains. But if the evidence shows trans women are not at a significant advantage, and there is a new generation of trans women coming up who may never have undergone male puberty, then I don't see why they shouldn't be allowed to compete and that means sometime they might win. How many girls are sat on the bench, or never get to compete at all because naturally taller/stronger/bigger girls have taken their place? Is that fair?

World Rugby concluded it wasn't safe .

Are they wrong

Given the dearth of top class transgender competitors in any sport though I'm not convinced though that trans inclusion is likely to mean the end of women's sports that people claim.

Rachel McKinnon / Veronica Ivy?
Laurel Hubbard?
Fallon Fox?
Hannah Mouncey?
Andraya Yearwood and Terri Miller?

How many transgender athletes beating and/or women do you want exactly?

As a counterpoint, can you name a single ftm transitioner who has beaten a male in a top-level sporting competition? If not, why not?

Sports is competitive. It just is. We are not going to change the Olympics into an 'everyone wins and all must have prizes' mentality, and nor should we.

Not everyone is good at sports, but that's life. I am not very good at maths. We each have our strengths and weaknesses.

Certainly the positions often held on here are fringe

That couldn´t be further from the truth, quite the opposite in fact. Both of my DDs, and their friends are all strongly gender critical. I don´t know any woman in real life who isn´t.

I also don´t know of a single man in real life who isn´t vehemently opposed to mtf trans inclusion in women´s sports, prisons, toilets or changing rooms.

That should say 'beating and/or injuring women'...