Biden has completely obliterated woman’s sex based protections as he said he would do.

[yourfaceisaforeignfood]

www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/presidential-actions/2021/01/20/executive-order-preventing-and-combating-discrimination-on-basis-of-gender-identity-or-sexual-orientation/

“Children should be able to learn without worrying about whether they will be denied access to the restroom, the locker room, or school sports."

Biden just passed all the worst parts of the Equality Act by executive order (so without going through any legislation at all). It is limited in effect to agencies (I think) but those agencies include the Bureau of Prisons, Dept of Housing and Urban Development, Dept of Education, Dept of Labor etc

This will of course be unchallenged, even welcomed by the media. It will likely have a knock on effect around the world.

And I am so angry. So so angry. He was never the ‘least worst option’ he is the absolute worst option.

As Abigail Shriner says
twitter.com/abigailshrier/status/1352121732723666946?s=21

Em it was always very obvious which female athletes were going to get hauled up and tested for illegal drug usage when watching Olympics and other top level sports as a kid.

It was never surprising when it was reported that said athlete had been disqualified because it was always clear which women looked like men.

That’s transmen of course. Although not all identify as transmen. The thread on testosterone and sports that already exists is illuminating. Women who didn’t even identify as trans taking testosterone for sports later ended up so confused the transitioned, and one at least then detransitioned.

That’s women born with female bodies who had such an advantage taken male hormones that it was considered illegal.

But men who have male bodies that have grown up with all the natural testosterone males have are ok to compete against women? Just because they have taken female hormones for a couple of years out of 30/40 odd of being a man? A woman with a woman’s body but a bit more muscle mass from synthetic male hormones= unfair advantage over women. But a man with 6 inches extra height, tone more muscle mass, larger skeleton and decades of natural male hormones developing their bodies very differently is ok as long as they feel like a woman.

You can’t see how illogical that is jj? Direct question, no waffling about lots of women yadda yadda. Do you really think there’s no unfair advantage in a man competing in women’s sports?? You’d take up boxing and if you got to top level you’d think it was reasonable to face off with Tyson? Or that Michael Jordan would be reasonable taking a place on a woman’s basketball team if he feels like a Michelle?

There is no evidence for either of these positions and considerable evidence that when trans inclusion policies have been pursued, in Ireland, Argentina, much of the US and the UK, and countless other countries and regions, most women have barely even noticed.

Because initially they were introduced by stealth (this has been admitted by several individuals and orgs). Women in all those countries have started taking notice. Their awareness will only increase with time.

most women have barely even noticed.

What you mean, I think, is that those who noticed have been ignored.

But you can always tell right? So should be easy to spot them.

Well it depends doesn’t it. There are plenty of sports on during the Olympics that never get a single minute of broadcasting time, so these athletes could be in one of those. Spotting two males in amongst thousands of women across 28 sports depending on tv coverage would be tricky, and doesn’t disprove the fact that people can correctly sex other people in reality.

I think that is demonstrated by the fact its already the law in many states and women, women's right and feminism clearly still exist.

I know I'm on a roll here posting on this thread, but now I'm pissed and it's personal.

I'm an American woman. What women's rights are you talking about? Last I checked, I do still have the right to vote. But I'm a white woman and lucky not to have systemic suppression of my vote. Check!

Depending on the state I live in or find myself in on a possibly dangerous day in my pregnancy, I may not get life-saving reproductive care. So, not a right. (leaves that right blank)

Oh, wait! I remembered one more right. I have the right to keep my job after 12 weeks of maternity leave but ONLY IF I live in the right state, and ONLY IF my employer has at least 50 other employees w/in 75 miles of each other and ONLY IF I have been employed at said employer for at least one year.

Tell me more about U.S. feminism. I'm all ears.

@Delphinium20

When Laurel Hubbard won weightlifting gold in Samoa, Feagaiga Stowers, an 18 year old indigenous Samoan woman, a survivor of abuse, was denied gold at her home games. Every other woman who finished below Hubbard had their place lowered by one.

This example really boils my blood. A mediocre, privileged white man cheated an indigenous Samoan woman of her rightful win and all the honors she deserved. I really, really hope that some day they can right this racist, sexist wrong.

Hubbard was hardly average she won junior national records when competing as a man, although post transition she never lifted at that level again. And plenty of women have beaten her.

Oh, wait! I remembered one more right. I have the right to keep my job after 12 weeks of maternity leave but ONLY IF I live in the right state, and ONLY IF my employer has at least 50 other employees w/in 75 miles of each other and ONLY IF I have been employed at said employer for at least one year.

Are you claiming this is down to trans women?

Hubbard was hardly average she won junior national records when competing as a man, although post transition she never lifted at that level again. And plenty of women have beaten her

It shouldn't matter if they came last every time. That's still a womans spot in the selection they took up.

Women just never suffer or lose enough to satisfy you do they ?

No.males in womens sport. Ever.

Sometimes reading your posts jj I think you don’t like us bothersome whinging women and we should just roll over be quiet

Well I won’t.

I have a daughter who is not a non trans gender girl

And I will never never give up fighting for her single sex rights

As a girl then as a woman

Biden #kamalaspuppet

There’s tones and tones of evidence to show the harm to women. Karen White in a woman’s prison?? Danielle Muscato taking a space in a woman’s shelter tweeting suck my dick on national women’s day. The case where a mum discriminated against for breastfeeding in public that wasn’t upheld because ‘men can breastfeed too’ so it wasn’t sex discrimination. Read the ‘it will never happen threads’ before trying to claim there’s no evidence. Address each one of those ‘lies and slurs’ directly.

Now all refugees are terrorists clearly is untrue . There’s no factual basis for that argument so it’s a lie.

Evidence matters. Facts matter. Something isn’t a lie or a slur because you say it is, you have to provide proof.

The case where a mum discriminated against for breastfeeding in public that wasn’t upheld because ‘men can breastfeed too’ so it wasn’t sex discrimination.

That was a ridiculous judgement but was nothing to do with trans women. Blaming everything you don't like on trans women without foundation is a slur. From the judgement:

"Furthermore, it is a scientific fact that even men have milk ducts and the hormones responsible for milk production. See
Nikhil Swaminathan, Strange but True: Males Can Lactate, SCIAM., Sept. 6, 2007, available at www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=strange-but-true-males-can-lactate&sc=rss.

Accordingly, lactation is not a physiological condition experienced exclusively by women who have recently given birth. "

www.aclu.org/legal-document/ames-v-nationwide-mutual-insurance-company-et-al-trial-court-decision?redirect=womens-rights/ames-v-nationwide-mutual-insurance-company-et-al-trial-court-decision

You forgot the sub heading to that scientific american article.

Unless you are an Indonesian fruit bat, though, it probably won't happen naturally

Yes we know certain medical conditions can cause fluid secretion in males. It doesn't have the composition female breast milk has though so you won't find any men feeding an infant and sustaining it's life.

Lactation in men is a sign something is going very wrong, or the side effect of cancer drugs.

The WHO statement on his babies should be fed says the best food is breast milk directly from mums breasts, then mums milk expressed, then another mums milk expressed, then formula if there’s no way of the above. Nowhere do WHO talk about men’s breast milk as a food source for infants. Men’s breast tissue is not designed to nourish infants.

Where have you addressed all the other ‘lies and slurs’ been through all the it will never happen threads and challenged all those ‘lies’? Do you think Karen White should be in a female prison? Do you believe women’s sports is the right place for Fallon Fox? Hypothetically if you took up boxing and got to the top of your field you’d be good with Mike Tyson self id ing as a woman and you’d be happy to face him in the ring?

Jeez it’s just all bollocks really otherwise us mums and dads would be sharing the breast feeding 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

@jj1968

Oh, wait! I remembered one more right. I have the right to keep my job after 12 weeks of maternity leave but ONLY IF I live in the right state, and ONLY IF my employer has at least 50 other employees w/in 75 miles of each other and ONLY IF I have been employed at said employer for at least one year.

Are you claiming this is down to trans women?

Don't be obtuse. I am directly refuting you when you say U.S. women have their rights and their feminism, as if we've just been doing swell here and have all that we need.

I'm showing that sex-based rights for women in the U.S. are spotty and few...and now thanks to this Executive Order, women can expect more unequal treatment in public life.

Please answer my earlier question about transwomen entering women's sports, why aren't they aware of their strengths and why don't care if they hurt women?

@OvaHere

You forgot the sub heading to that scientific american article.

Unless you are an Indonesian fruit bat, though, it probably won't happen naturally

Yes we know certain medical conditions can cause fluid secretion in males. It doesn't have the composition female breast milk has though so you won't find any men feeding an infant and sustaining it's life.

And that's why it's a ridiculous judgement. But it has nothing to do with trans women or trans inclusion.

It's trans men that will affect future judgements of that nature. They will be used in the argument that men breastfeed too therefore it's not sex discrimination.

I should have asked dh to identify as a women when I was breastfeeding infants.

That would have made all the difference when I was stuck with two screaming infants and bleeding nipples.

Because breastfeeding isn’t a women’s issue and it’s not sex discrimination to abuse us when we need to do it in public because men can breastfeed too....

Never have twins jj. You’ll get a sharp shock when your husbands nipples refuse to cooperate with your politics and your stuck dealing with biology.

"incontrovertible evidence"
Excellent.
You first.

What is the incontrovertible evidence that any man* should not, could not possibly compete against his own sex?
And more, that he should compete against the opposite sex, of which he is not a member?

Where is the incontrovertible evidence that it's more inhumane to expect a man to compete against other men, than it is inhumane to demand women compete against men?

Because I missed any of that incontrovertible evidence being offered.

Perhaps it was something along the lines of "the opposite sex call themselves X, and so when I started calling myself X that means I am obviously the same as them. Sport should be segregated on the basis of the words people use for themselves even if they denote entirely opposite meanings. Not fairness, not physicality"

If the justification for a man refusing to compete in his own sex category against competitors of his very own sex, is actually 'no, I can't, because my feelings', then I will see you a billion women's voices saying 'no, because OUR feelings' and raise you a 'ALSO WE ARE NOT HIS SEX AND HE IS NOT OURS'

Where is the incontrovertible evidence that such a man really does 'feel' the way he imagines every single female person 'feels'? Did someone collect hard evidence of how the female competitors feel and compare that with how he feels? Was there a precise moment when an authority assessed those women, recorded their feelings and thoughts and judged "By Jove, these people are scarily similar, these women and this one man, their bodies are opposite to his but their minds are conclusively the same as this man, and yet so shockingly different from all the other male athletes, quickly, let's ensure we group everyone by our predetermined tangible feelings criteria immediately!"

Where is the incontrovertible evidence that feelings are the correct way to segregate sports, or any aspect of life?

I'm yet to see incontrovertible evidence that one sex class appropriating a word for existing people of the opposite sex class and REVERSING ITS MEANING for their own benefit, should ever be treated with anything other than the scathing contempt such a preposterous misappropriation deserves.

It's laughable, that we are indulging globally the contemptuous arrogance of men who think that stealing the word that distinguishes the opposite sex from them dissolves the distinction between the sexes.

Ah, but I'm calling myself a woman, checkmate sister.

Laughable, except people are bowing to it, not laughing at it.

There's never been a speck of evidence produced for why men cannot compete against their own sex. Not one. Ever.
All we ever get is: because I call myself by a different name to my own sex. I call myself what I am not; the name for the opposite sex.

A man is not entitled to the name for my sex. He is not entitled to breach the boundaries of my sex.

*Man: Any adult human male.
Feel free to use your own preferred terms for my hypothetical man, his feelings, his assumed identity and his pronouns.

Brilliant post Barracker. As always.

Brava Barracker

That was a ridiculous judgement but was nothing to do with trans women. Blaming everything you don't like on trans women without foundation is a slur

The part of the judgement throwing out sex discrimination initially appears ridiculous but on reading the whole case it seems to be predicated on the basis of her claiming constructive dismissal because of intolerable work conditions around not being given time and a place to express milk.

Her employer seems to have had a policy of requiring notification three days in advance that an employee would need a lactation room, which she failed to give. (I'm assuming it is a one- off notification which then applies until the employee has no further need- not three days in advance every time)

She was offered the use of a "wellness" room (sick bay?) until the necessary arrangements could be put in place. She resigned because that wasn't acceptable.

The point about sex discrimination isn't really relevant. The protected characteristic was the ability to be able to express milk at work. The right to be able to do this appears to be codified into US law. Her employer had a policy in place for employees who wished to use this right. She didn’t follow that policy; refused the temporary arrangements offered until a lactation room was made available and claimed constructive dismissal.

This case is often referred to here as evidence that because a trans man can get pregnant and even breast feed that all pregnancy and lactation rights are redundant. This overlooks the fact that the characteristic which is protected is the ability to become pregnant and lactate- regardless of whether one calls oneself a man, a woman or an alien from the planet Zog.

@OvaHere

It's trans men that will affect future judgements of that nature. They will be used in the argument that men breastfeed too therefore it's not sex discrimination.

That case was badly argued. US law, as does UK and EU law protects people who are pregnant and who lactate.

@jj1968

Women having opinions about political policies are expressing slurs

It's perfectly possible for a political opinion to be a slur. Saying we should refuse to accept refugees because all refugees are terrorists is a slur. As is claiming that trans inclusion represents a threat to women so great it will mean the end of women completely. There is no evidence for either of these positions and considerable evidence that when trans inclusion policies have been pursued, in Ireland, Argentina, much of the US and the UK, and countless other countries and regions, most women have barely even noticed.

Women are noticing in those countries as the consequences of the sneaked in legislative changes are becoming more apparent. The legislation is new and already issues are beginning to filter through. I think the Barbie case in Ireland, where a person with a history of violence against women and professed wannabe rapist was described by police as a teenage girlie has alerted us somewhat to what was shunted through. Yes women, be careful of teenage girls who have stated they want to rape women. Better you get hurt or die rather than this very special girleen's feelings get upset. Barbie only got a certificate from the Irish state declaring them as a woman when over 18. The violent attack where this male viciously tried to pull a woman's eyelids off was committed when Barbie was still acknowledged by the Irish state as a male as per their original birth cert.

The women in the prison where Barbie has been placed (who now has a certificate from the Irish state declaring them to be a woman) might be horrified and scared to have Barbie, who has a history of violent assault and a rape wish against women, locked up with them. Has anyone asked them? The person who women were told to be very wary of and was a specific danger to them has now been put inside the women's prison. Barbie was declared a woman according to new Irish legislation which was implemented even against the recommended version of the legislation. Self ID was not recommended in Ireland. It got f*cked through nevertheless. Maybe that should be investigated to see what happened there. What ulterior motives were involved and who had the power to do that? No public discussion or consent by Irish citizens to this new and regressive legislation. Regression and stealth.

The Irish state is issuing new birth certificates on demand to a select group of people, even altering the information for the people who want them to do so. Yet, in many instances adopted people in Ireland cannot even get their original, factual and un-doctored birth certificate and the state won't legislate to allow them to do so. I had an acquaintance who was told by his social worked that he had no automatic right to his birth cert as he had been adopted. The state won't reveal your personal information that allows you to access it in some cases. Luckily he was adopted back into the town where his mother had been from and he had the name of his mother. I was able to walk in with this information and get a copy of his birth cert. Doctored for one set of people and deny simple access to another group. This shower of Irish male politicians and NGO's are operating in a way that is just as misogynistic and with the same casual brutality towards women as their forefathers. They also disingenuously dress it up as being 'good' according to their own newly concocted version of misogynistic 'commandments'.

Will there be a litany of abuses coming through in the future on foot of the then 85% male Irish parliament who effectively and sneakily damaged safeguarding? Like the abuses in the Mother and Baby homes, the orphanages and the Magdalen Laundries? The safeguarding of recent years was on foot of the horrors when men were treated like a sacred caste without much pushback. Open doors access, and by heck did they opportunistically abuse it.

Why would we think there will be a different outcome this time?