C**t as a derogative term.

[Billie18]

Makes my blood boil every time I hear it uses as a derogative term.

Thank you edge of a coin for your post.

This is supposed to be an fwr chat and there seems to be an utter determination not to talk about misogyny and swearing (which is a really big and revealing topic) and instead discuss which words are used where and how much weight they carry. Which is interesting but not really related to feminism or what the OP wanted to discuss.

There's no hand wringing here either.

@FamilyOfAliens

That video where Mhairi Black smirks as she calls any woman who doesn’t believe that TWAW a “Jeremy Hunt” is a reminder of how offensive it is when used to silence women.

Oh good point.

The fact that people use 'c u next Tuesday' giggle giggle shows that it's taboo.

We swear a lot on my work team but if I said oh xyz is a cunt it would be met with a stunned silence, I can guarantee.

It would be good to get this thread back to a discussion about why this word is 'the worst' in the areas it is.

I'm also really interested to know what 'the worst' is for those who use it very casually. If it's a mild word like, in my neck of the woods, bugger. Then what is bad. If you really want to insult someone what do you use where you are?

@CousinKrispy

I find it unpleasant and shocking and misogynistic, but I think that's because I'm not British and it's not as widely used where I grew up. Obviously it's different for UK natives.

It depends on where in the country you are. In the north east of England it still seems to be regarded as a bad word (and I agree, I hate it), but in e.g. the south east and Scotland, its used far more freely.

I live in Scotland, west of Scotland and a pretty working class town. I'm common as muck myself and it's just not true that cunt is bandied about as a common coloquialism.

I have been known to drop the odd C-bomb and it's definitely more commonly used, especially by men, but it's still known as the worst swear word. It definitely wouldn't be a word bandied around in most workplaces with the exception of building sites.

The whole "good cunt, bunch of cunts" etc thing is funny but it's not a helpful or accurate representation to say that it's a genuine reflection of everyone in the country.

I am also Scottish, in Glasgow most of my life, living in a working-class community. If people had said "it's everyday parlance among many people/communities in Scotland" I would have totally agreed. However a couple of posters made sweeping statements about it being an everyday word in here which are totally inaccurate.

I don't look down on Scots who do use it regularly in the context you describe, but it's simply inaccurate to suggest it's a normal part of vocabulary for most Scots. I don't doubt the posters that say it's part of their lived experience but don't know why folk can't accept that there are many of us for whom is isn't a part of everyday life.

I also feel kind of scunnered by the implication that Scots are too dim or clueless to code-switch; most of us have the gumption to know that there are words you might use with your mates down the pub that you wouldn't use with e.g. your boss, the Amazon delivery driver, the cashier in Lidl, your child's teacher etc.

@LizzieAnt

HeelsHandbagPerfumeCoffee In Irish and Scottish slang it’s a colloquialism and pretty much in everyday parlance And it’s not offensive because it doesn’t refer to female anatomy

I can't speak for Ireland but cunt is absolutely not used in "everyday parlance" in Scotland.

I'm in Ireland and it's considered the crudest swear word here and does refer to female anatomy.

Irish in Ireland here.

Cunt is not everyday, common parlance here. Not in the same way as fuck/fucker/fucking/fucked, bollocks/bollix/bollixed, shit/shite, etc. I hear and have used all these words in social and work situations, because Ireland generally has a pretty relaxed attitude towards swearing, and the social/work crossover is a good example of common parlance.

Cunt is used 99% of the time in Ireland as a derogatory insult, stronger than a bitch, dickhead, fucker, prick, and so on. I hear it occasionally as a strong insult (usually about rather that to someone), and sometimes I hear it between college-age males slagging each other (they seem to grow out of it once they graduate).

I know one person who uses it regularly in an "any cunt" = anybody sort of way, and he stands out as unusual (and has gotten some flak for it from people who thought he was being aggressive... because it's not everyday, benign language).

And that's based on a very broad sample of people, from leafy south Dublin to deprived nortsoyid to deepest farming bogland. Over many years. It's not common parlance.

It depends on where in the country you are. In the north east of England it still seems to be regarded as a bad word (and I agree, I hate it), but in e.g. the south east and Scotland, its used far more freely

I think if you read the thread you will see it is not used "far more freely" in Scotland despite the best endeavours of one poster.

As to why it's become so taboo and regarded as even worse than the other sexually related swear words I don't know.

The poster who referred to Mhairi Black's use of it by rhyming slang is interesting. It's interesting as it firstly tells us Black is a nasty, misogynistic bully who thinks it's fine to ridicule someone's name. It's also interesting that out of all the words she could have chosen to describe the women she disagrees with (e.g bigots, dinosaurs, prejudiced, ignorant, unenlightened or even transphobes) she picks that one. The word clearly, to her anyway, has power.

@NiceGerbil

Thank you edge of a coin for your post.

This is supposed to be an fwr chat and there seems to be an utter determination not to talk about misogyny and swearing (which is a really big and revealing topic) and instead discuss which words are used where and how much weight they carry. Which is interesting but not really related to feminism or what the OP wanted to discuss.

There's no hand wringing here either.

I disagree, NiceGerbil.

Where and when a word is used is essential to understanding its misogynistic (or other) intentions.

Case in point is Ireland, with a very visible social history of church-driven misogyny and prudishness (though whether women in present-day Ireland experience more or less sexism than women in the UK is another issue). Some of us have argued that "cunt" is highly derogatory in Ireland, which might suggest a historical link between misogyny and using female anatomical terms with negative associations. OTOH, a pp suggested "cunt" was in common parlance in Ireland in a non-derogatory sense, which would lead to different conclusions (e.g. about no real link between misogynistic history and negative terms for female anatomy).

You can't analyse language and its origins without analysing the culture and context in which it is used.

“I also feel kind of scunnered by the implication that Scots are too dim or clueless to code-switch”

I think Scottish people code switch a lot more than English people tbh...

I’ve got about 4 different sets of vocabulary and pronunciation.

I mentioned earlier I’m very sure cunt as a non pejorative I don’t think I’ve ever heard used for a woman, it seems to be men or in a general purpose meaning body, but not women - I thought that was mildly interesting, maybe it’s not, lol. But I’ve only ever heard it used with the same intent as anywhere else in the U.K. towards a woman.

To be fair though, it is also a horrible swear word even in the same areas it’s used otherwise. There is a huge difference between actually calling someone a cunt and using it colloquially.

And the OP is from an area where it is 'the worst word' and so she wanted to talk about why that is.

It's two different conversations.

Round here cunt is definitely the worst and that is due to misogyny.

The fact it used to be a 'normal' word and became obscene is interesting as well.

For me it ties into the endless threads on here about a 'friendly' name for girls genitals, like Willy for boys.

All of the words seem to be considered crude in some areas and then you end up with every more ludicrous euphemisms. Flower etc.

This is because it's not the word that's the problem but the fact that female genitals are still deep down more unmentionable than male I think.

Where I live it's considered the worst swear word, but I don't find it a misogynist term, I find it similar to prick or cock, but stronger.
I hate hearing the term bitch, which is a strongly gendered insult.
Interestingly, twat is considered a strong word where I like (Yorkshire), but I understand that down south it can be considered pretty mild.

This is because it's not the word that's the problem but the fact that female genitals are still deep down more unmentionable than male I think

Completely agree with this NiceGerbil - it is considered more vile as an insult (where it is meant as one) because of this

@MissBarbary, I’ll maintain my best endeavours to substantiate my posts as I’m sure you will. That’s the whole point.Unsurprisingly, we both will equally feel we are right and are presenting a cogent POV

Code switching, yes an excellent point
I lived and worked in England ,Scotland,Ireland and consciously and unconsciously yes I adapt and can switch accents. Being from a wc Irish/Scottish family I can get and understand the nuances and the Scottish accent. I can dip in/out. For work and uni I acquired and can switch between accents. I have encountered low level prejudice and/or piss taking about accent. Usual stuff...oh that’s a thick accent! Errr no it’s not thick it’s just you’re choosing not to listen, not everyone has a Home Counties accent.

Go back to family...they think I speak posh and/or slowly.

I’ll reiterate because a phrase or word is unfamiliar or unacceptable in your social group doesn’t mean it’s not used elsewhere. Language,culture,linguistics are fluid and are drawn from a wide socioeconomic group.

Language,culture,linguistics are fluid and are drawn from a wide socioeconomic group.

Cunt still means vagina tho

With language intent is everything

If to you it has the sole meaning of vagina, that is your experience
To me,ime, cunt can be a noun, a colloquialism or an insult referencing female anatomy
Depends who is saying it and in what context

@HeelsHandbagPerfumeCoffee

With language intent is everything

If to you it has the sole meaning of vagina, that is your experience
To me,ime, cunt can be a noun, a colloquialism or an insult referencing female anatomy
Depends who is saying it and in what context

What are you naming?

Your obviously not Scottish 😂

I'm not English

But I grew up in Britain and I went to a bog standard comp.

I still know that cunt means vagina and whether it's used as an insult or an inversion of an insult its origin remains vagina

Cunt Means vagina isn’t in dispute, and it also is used as a noun
Twat is slang for vagina, it also is in use as a colloquialism for a foolish person
Words can and do have multiple meanings, you of course know this

I really don't know what your aim is heels? Is it to educate people (some of them Scottish) about Scottish colloquialisms? Or are we here to discuss why a word that means vagina is such a powerful insult?

I'm not remotely educated enough to engage in any discussion about etymology, linguistic culture or anything else.
I have Scottish and Irish family, I have lived all over the UK and it has always been regarded as 'the worst word'.
Nobody I know would ever use it, let alone in everyday language.
I would be quite judgey of someone who did.
I don't really think that makes me an intellectually challenged Mary Whitehouse type.

Or are we here to discuss why a word that means vagina is such a powerful insult?

Sometimes. And sometimes it doesn't, and it varies by subgroup.

It's just as relevant and interesting to discuss why cunt is NOT derogatory in some subgroups (was it never? Was it once and lost the negative connotation?) as it is to discuss why it's derogatory to many. Two sides of the same coin.

It's far more tiresome to have posters police the topic of the thread than it it to read posts on how different subgroups use the same word