Feeling wary

[Biscuitsanddoombar]

After the appalling scenes in America last night, there has been a wave of comments on twitter about the need to no longer “embolden” the likes of Allison Pearson, Laurence fox, and Paris lees tweeting about how “both sides” are not of equal value when it comes to hate

Seeing as GC feminism is always portrayed by the TRA as “hate” and aligned with the far right, I think we’re about to see another huge push to brand us as fascists supported by the right wing who peddle hate speech. I expect to see stonewall et al redouble their lobbying efforts especially with the media around policing of language & for a lot of organisations yo double down on beeeee line by erasing the use of the word woman

Beeee kind (what an edit button kill MN??)

I agree, I think this rather clownish protest will be used to push censorship even further.

I've already seen one Tweet blaming WOLF for working with right-wing women. Gah.

Yep, I'm really pretty apprehensive about what Biden administration is going to bring.

I mean, Trump was an unhinged crook, no doubt about it. But if anyone thinks Biden is a ray of sunshine I think they're in for a bit of a ride. American politics seems to be rotten through to me.

At the very least, I hope it means some attention will be paid to climate issues, but I am not very confident. Neo liberals gonna neo liberal. And I expect there will be war in Iran soon enough.

Gah. Sometimes it all seems too overwhelming to counter, or to even know where to start.

Tbh I’m not really so fussed about America as how events there will be used against GC feminists here

I’m seeing so much ‘this is what happens when you give hate a platform’ and GC feminism is being lumped in with hate for being “transphobic” and therefore anyone who is GC must not be allowed to speak

Oh you can count on it being used against us.

Some exceptional shoe-horning going on.

twitter.com/Obsolesence/status/1346953028411260935?s=20

I'm not sure, it could go either way. Identity politics and creeping censorship and the imposition of political orthodoxies are just as much an attack on democracy as Trumpian idiots. Identity politics will lead to a backlash.

Now is the time to push back - respond to the consultation on freedom of expression

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4127159-Call-for-Evidence-Freedom-of-Expression

I'm a bit confused by what happened last night. Media seems to be asserting that these "right wing" demonstrators were given free rein and supported in their rioting in a way that the left wing/BLM riots over the summer were not. But from what I could see the protests over the summer got a great deal of support with multiple politicians and high profile celebrity types speaking on the participants behalf, playing them down, police drew back and often didn't intervene also multiple people in authority "taking the knee" etc.

I think we are being played as complete fools by the media and agree that soon enough those holding GC views will be shoved hard to the right and treated accordingly.

The revolting situation yesterday was caused by a group who believe that they are the righteous and that rules, democracy, fairness, and boring old values like that should be cast aside to take what they want.

That's not the GC viewpoint. That's very much the other political lobby. They may not like who they've got into bed with, but they're very much enabling the mob smashing their way into the Capitol because they don't like the results of democracy and don't plan to respect the views of anyone they don't agree with.

The smearing of GC feminists has been going on for some time. There have been numerous visitors to these boards accusing GC feminists of 'aligning' with the right with zero evidence. OJ has repeatedly done the same, most recently in his interview with JD. It's not much of a pivot for the misogynist propagandists and opportunists to use this cynically to their advantage, they haven't shown any integrity on that front up until this point, it's grist to the mill. Theirs is actually the sort of binary, polarised, good, bad, right think, wrong think sentiment (aided by some pretty manipulative tactics) that has contributed to an increasingly divided America. They can't see it.

Would like to just mention that when Trump won, the hard left behaved in an appalling fashion, like babies throwing their toys out of the pram. I found this really embarrassing as I am left but unless we start to be critical of all sides, we are lost.

The riots caused by Antifa were under reported in the US. Democracy is under threat from all sides. The centre is being ignored

@highame yes! I feel like I am being asked to ignore the evidence of my own eyes and brain.

Didn't protestors demonstrating against the Kavanaugh confirmation also occupy one of the capitol buildings back in 2018 as well in scene not massively different from last night? I went back to look and the reporting was quite different. Last night was supposedly a historical, unprecedented event, unless you go all the way back to 2018 that is...

Exactly Michelle & Hecates! Exactly that. The smearing will ramp up, GC feminists will be repeatedly bracketed as “far right” by the usual suspects in an attempt to push back the Overton window on this

Most ppl aren’t well informed on this issue & it’ll be framed as horrible right wing transphobic ‘Karen’s’ v the poor misunderstood trans ppl who only want to pee in peace & be left alone....

Aren’t Antifa still smashing up Portland? (Not that I am in anyway condoning yesterday, to be clear.)

The smearing of GC feminists has been going on for some time. There have been numerous visitors to these boards accusing GC feminists of 'aligning' with the right with zero evidence.

There is ample evidence from Wolf's association with the ADF to the very existence of Hands Across the Aisle. In the UK gender critical feminists have aigned themselves with the Tory and Murdoch press to the point The Spectator is virtually the GC trade magazine whilst groups like TransgenderTrend and individuals like Posie Parker have happily appeared on far right conspiracy websites alongside horrifying anti-semitism. Harry Miller, who many GC people have raised money for and continue to support, has links to Tommy Robinson, Anne Marie Waters has attended GC events and numerous GC activists have appeared on alt-right podcasts. Meanwhile Paul Conrathe, an evengelical prolifeer seems to be the inhouse legal department of the GC movement.

I think it's fair to say some GC feminists have objected to this,but the vast majority haven't seemingly either because they are from the right themselves or working to the maxim that the enemy's enemy is my friend. Well we've just seen what your friends get up to, of course those who have supported and legitimised the alt/far right in the name of owning the trans should be held accountable for that. It seems to me a lot of people seem to think this is all just some big online game with no possible consequences for either themselves or others (except trans people). It's not, elements of the GC movement have aligned with some very dangerous people. It's time to own that, and if you really object to last night's scenes then do something about it and put some clear ground between GC feminism and the far/alt/religious right.

Right on cue, here's jj to tell us silly wimmin off for not apologising for what other gender critical feminists are doing.

Prove feminists caused yesterday's events. G'wan.

The revolting situation yesterday was caused by a group who believe that they are the righteous and that rules, democracy, fairness, and boring old values like that should be cast aside to take what they want.

I disagree with this. The situation was caused by a group who have been brainwashed into believing that the election was rigged because their own representatives and president have repeatedly said so. These people think they are fighting for democracy and fairness against a "corrupt and evil system". The blame lies squarely with Donald Trump, his cronies and all of the lily livered, self serving republicans who promoted this dangerous bullshit.

It's not, elements of the GC movement have aligned with some very dangerous people

This is nonsense. The Times, Telegraph, Economist, Spectator are all mainstream right wing publications. None of them are my paper of choice, but they are speaking the truth about the problems with transgender ideology and how it affects women and children.

The vast majority of GC feminists are left wing, but have been pushed out of party politics for not believing men are women.

Speaking the truth is not dangerous. Lying to children about basic biology definitely is dangerous.

As is Trump, because he's been inciting violence in his supporters by lying to them.

Well, if you chase feminist women out of the Guardian and the Morning Star, and the only paper left is the Spectator, they might end up pitching their stuff there.

These people think they are fighting for democracy and fairness against a "corrupt and evil system".

I agree. But I do believe that this sense of being on the side of good and righteousness has led to believing that a democratically achieved result is 'corrupt' and being unable to cope with or accept that other views to theirs have equal validity.

The fall of the American empire can definitely be attributed to ... left wing UK feminists. For sure.

Michelle, agree, this is why I find so many left-wing friends so hard to listen to. It's the self righteousness.

and individuals like Posie Parker have happily appeared on far right conspiracy websites

I remember as there was a massive thread on this topic a while back

I think anyone who bothered to do any reading about the origins and development of feminism in the UK and the belief in women as a biological sex class would feel embarrassed to keep repeating that it is aligned with the far right. It's a deliberate smear which seems to form so much of our divisive, mud slinging, social media driven discourse nowadays. It could have been so different.

I should say knowledge of women as a biological sex class, because quite frankly we see and experience how women are treated.

It's two warped mirrors facing and reflecting each other. Public trust in institutions and facts have been undermined by mainstream and social media that profit from clickbait. The more extreme the better. One side fervently believes in systemic racism (even when evidence shows a more complex picture) and the other side fervently believes in systemic electoral fraud (even when evidence shows a more complex picture). Each side excuses their own failings and ideological believers are convinced they are the on the side of the good and the righteous. Believers are whipped into a frenzy by leaders, politicians and self-appointed gurus telling them their version of anti-democratic authoritarianism is justified. It is the other side, and the other side only, that is corrupt and irredeemably evil.

Remember all that talk of how far right people were covertly going into antifa / BLM crowds and causing havoc and violence to bring the protests into disrepute? Well now the internet is awash with claims of antifa types being spotted in the protestors that broke into the Capitol building, obviously there to incite and stir up trouble.

Exact same excuses, claims, conspiracy theories and paranoia. The common factor in either side of the political divide is the human being - susceptible to the same foibles and failings .... The political label is only icing on the cake - they are interchangeable. I don't think things will get better until people realise this.