Casual sexual violence in dating

[queenofknives]

Article about how casual sex is increasingly violent www.persuasion.community/p/brutal-in-the-bedroom?token=eyJ1c2VyX2lkIjo1MzYxNzg3LCJwb3N0X2lkIjoyMDA4Mzk1MywiXyI6IkFkN0xoIiwiaWF0IjoxNjA5MDcyMTg1LCJleHAiOjE2MDkwNzU3ODUsImlzcyI6InB1Yi02MTU3OSIsInN1YiI6InBvc3QtcmVhY3Rpb24ifQ.g39ST8rlpyXaH-Rkstegy6n41T6MMOc-zKwIKegeZt0

It's really upsetting and redolent of the way in which porn objectifies women so that their suffering becomes necessary for male pleasure. Women socialised to please males must absorb this and pretend to enjoy it too, indeed their 'enjoyment' is now necessary to demonstrate their 'empowerment'. I do also wonder if it's important that sexual relationships are anything but the dreaded 'vanilla' nowadays - which in reality might mean genuine respect (and self respect), care and in actual fact real pleasure for women.

When I was in my late teens/early twenties there was a lot of peer group pressure to say you enjoyed anal sex. Whilst there are women who enjoy anal sex, it's much more pleasurable for the average man, because of their anatomy, than it is for the average woman. I see this as an extension of that, in this case I'm sure there are women who enjoy BDSM but the normalisation of violent porn means the average young woman must now demonstrate they enjoy their own degradation (because it ultimately pleases men).

I tend to see it much the same way as you HecatesCats. It is really upsetting to think of young women and girls having to negotiate these sorts of expectations. I often wonder if this is part of the reason why young people are engaged in so much 'identity' exploration - instead of sex seeming like an exciting adventure to embark upon, it probably seems quite terrifying (to both sexes). Maybe some of the turn towards embracing different gender identities is driven by a need to establish some kind of control or boundaries around sexual activity.

I'm not really saying anything new there, I know, but sex and dating seems really scary these days. And of course, it makes women really, really vulnerable. If sexual violence is 'normal' and porn normalises men getting off on violently abusing women, then no doubt many women are having horrible, abusive sexual experiences and blaming themselves for not enjoying it.

I often wonder if this is part of the reason why young people are engaged in so much 'identity' exploration - instead of sex seeming like an exciting adventure to embark upon, it probably seems quite terrifying (to both sexes).

I can imagine it does. It pains me to see organisations like Childline assisting with the normalisation of - what is increasingly violent - porn. When all the grown ups in
the room are busy earning woke credits by being oh so relaxed about degrading pornography, it must seem to some like that's an inevitable part of the adult experience.

I did a post about the shocking statistics of young women being strangled on dates on facebook and got jumped upon by a couple of women who like being strangled. They couldn't see it wasn't about their consensual fetish but about men doing this as a non consensual act to young women on dates... do I need to say these women dont have daughters?

My kids range between 8 and 13 and they have all heard of pornhub. They've all seen Belle Delphine. Yet they all though Santa left them a stocking full of treats. Young boys are bring weapons by the internet to hate women. Young women are being taught by the internet to hate themselves.

That was meant to say "young boys are being weaponized by the internet"

Thank God I'm old now and don't have to negotiate my way through this maze. I thought the casual sexism I experienced in my youth was awful, it was nothing to this.

That is really scary AvocadoBathroom. I remember a couple of years ago, a woman writer reacted to an article about strangling by having a huge tantrum, saying she was 'shaking and crying' because this is how she gets off and people must therefore not criticise it as a practice. I honestly couldn't believe the total self-absorbtion that her response indicated but then she had hundreds of supportive comments. Yes, if that's what you want to do sexually, who cares? But it's obvious that sexual violence has been mainstreamed, the same way porn mainstreamed super-high heels and the "Hollywood" wax.

It is really awful that children as young as 13 (and no doubt younger) are aware of this stuff on any level. I think I was about 12 or 13 when I first saw pornography (a friend's dad had a huge stash of magazines). I thought it was gross and disgusting and humiliating, but looking back, it was all quite innocent compared to what porn is like now.

@madcatladyforever

Thank God I'm old now and don't have to negotiate my way through this maze. I thought the casual sexism I experienced in my youth was awful, it was nothing to this.

I keep thinking about dipping my toe into dating again... then I see stuff like this. I'm so, so glad that I'm not having to negotiate this world as a young woman anymore.

It reminds me of the 'I don't mind males in single sex spaces argument', Avocado. Well that's all very well and good but we know women are more likely to be attacked in mixed sex spaces and if women's spaces become a free for all that increases the likelihood of women being attacked. Likewise normalising strangulation increases the likelihood of other women getting hurt if not killed.

As the mother of a young daughter I find this extremely upsetting and worrying.

It pains me to see organisations like Childline assisting with the normalisation of - what is increasingly violent - porn.

What has ChildLine done?

"Women socialised to please males must absorb this and pretend to enjoy it too, indeed their 'enjoyment' is now necessary to demonstrate their 'empowerment'."
I dont think some of them care if we enjoy it or not.
The last man I slept with admitted to me he didn't.
Awful experience all round.
Knowing that most of them are so porn sick really puts me off trying to start a relationship.

I grew up 40 years ago when men took pride in their skill in cunnilingus. Being good in bed was really important to the men I knew. I had many lovely sexual experiences as a wild young thing and it very much saddens me to know that young women now are looking at such a bleak, ugly sexual landscape.

I’m very glad I was young in the 1970’s, when boyfriends were gentle long haired hippy types, and being “good in bed” meant knowing a) where the clitoris was and b) how to give your girlfriend an orgasm!
Porn (apart from hard core nasty stuff, which was inaccessible to most young lads pre internet) was largely harmless magazines, with hilarious readers’ stories and pics of readers wives (and even husbands!), which couples often giggled over together.
I am revolted and horrified by the violent degradation (and risk of strangulation or bowel perforation) awaiting young girls today, and despair of how we turn this around.

Cross posted with you, Prawn - I think most women of our era would agree.

I’m currently fighting to have my case (3yrs in) taken to court from being subjected to a horrific BDSM rape, including very niche practices. I’ve never had an interest in BDSM and he didn’t give a shit. The failure of the police is astonishing because you can’t be clear on consent apparently as soon as violence is involved.

It’s affecting everything, the legal system isn’t built to protect us from this rise in porn obsessed culture. The amount of men online obsessed with slapping and choking now means I’m just staying single unless I meet someone normal in real life.

When they are old enough I’ll have to teach my girls what is and isn’t normal, it terrifies me. I’m not a Mary whitehouse but is happily have porn banned.

@Blubellsarebells

"Women socialised to please males must absorb this and pretend to enjoy it too, indeed their 'enjoyment' is now necessary to demonstrate their 'empowerment'." I dont think some of them care if we enjoy it or not. The last man I slept with admitted to me he didn't. Awful experience all round. Knowing that most of them are so porn sick really puts me off trying to start a relationship.

That does indeed sound awful Bluebell. I'm sorry you you had to experience that.

In terms of expressing enjoyment as empowerment I guess I was thinking about the reference in the article to popular culture. How sexual expression as a women seems to be more and more about demonstrating 'empowerment' by claiming ownership over and enjoyment in degradation.

Oh and yes I’d agree, men no longer care for woman’s pleasure during sex, apart from to make them feel they’ve “achieved” something and MADE someone finish. It’s a different mindset, like pride, than actually caring for someone else’s enjoyment.

I'm so sorry Drizzle

It would be interesting to know how same-sex couples' power balance works. One would assume that a pair reasonably equal would have less likelihood of doing anything displeasing to the other under the pretence of pleasuring.
(Gay men who are not in stable relationships might be in a different situation perhaps, in withstanding pressure to do what they prefer not?)

Drizzle
Im so sorry.
Shocking how bad the police are.
Scary that the bastard is free to do the same to other women.

@Yogatomorrow

It pains me to see organisations like Childline assisting with the normalisation of - what is increasingly violent - porn.

What has ChildLine done?

They take a pretty relaxed attitude about kids watching porn. When we know that many of the most popular porn sites contain extremely concerning content, to say the least. This is guidance for ages 12+

"Is it normal to watch porn?
Watching porn is a choice, and whether you choose to watch it or not is completely normal. Only you can decide if watching porn is something you feel comfortable about

Watching porn when you’re under 18 isn’t against the law and you shouldn’t have to feel worried or ashamed about it. You won’t get in trouble if you watch it yourself"

I'm so sorry Drizzle. That sounds horrendous.

I do believe there are 'normal' young men out there who are repulsed by porn and who genuinely like women and want to share sexual intimacy. However, I also think that the general culture makes them the outliers and weirdos. It is really distressing to think about how sex looks more and more like assault, but porn is so inhumane and actually anti-human, I have to believe that many young people will start to reject it altogether.

If my relationship broke down or my husband were to pre-decease me, I have no interest in another relationship because I have no interest in navigating modern mores in this area. Given what I hear about the behaviour of some older men, I wouldn't even feel that knowing a chap for a long time would give me insight into how he would behave in an intimate relationship.

@queenofknives

I tend to see it much the same way as you HecatesCats. It is really upsetting to think of young women and girls having to negotiate these sorts of expectations. I often wonder if this is part of the reason why young people are engaged in so much 'identity' exploration - instead of sex seeming like an exciting adventure to embark upon, it probably seems quite terrifying (to both sexes). Maybe some of the turn towards embracing different gender identities is driven by a need to establish some kind of control or boundaries around sexual activity.

I'm not really saying anything new there, I know, but sex and dating seems really scary these days. And of course, it makes women really, really vulnerable. If sexual violence is 'normal' and porn normalises men getting off on violently abusing women, then no doubt many women are having horrible, abusive sexual experiences and blaming themselves for not enjoying it.

Insightful post, thank you.