Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Ben Hunte BBC article about puberty blocker ban

336 replies

risefromyourgrave · 22/12/2020 09:58

Not biased at all Hmm maybe they’re trying to appease the people upset by big meanie Amol Rajan....

www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-55369784

OP posts:
NotBadConsidering · 22/12/2020 20:29

gardenbird48

and there was a poor person in Norway (?) that committed suicide because they realised after their vaginoplasty surgery that there was a strong and persistent smell of faeces that they would be stuck with for life. The surgeon obviously didn't ensure that their patient fully understood how the surgery was going to turn out.

Which is consistent with the summary of the article published in the American Journal of Psychiatry - the one that issued a correction - that concluded medical intervention brings no improvements to the mental health of transgender adults.

So there is data suggesting mental health of both transgender adults and children isn’t improved by medical interventions, but no evidence it is improved.

NotBadConsidering · 22/12/2020 20:33

I have nothing but derision for the surgeons who carry out these procedures and treat their patients so poorly, in the face of such evidence. It’s unethical and they should be reported to their relevant health boards.

HecatesCatsInXmasHats · 22/12/2020 21:24

@gardenbird48

apparently they have responded to Baroness Nicholson's communication with them by saying that they are right and they are secure in their education output or something. Hmm
They're contravening their own guidelines, not least on the reporting of suicide, so they're not right and they should really get an adult to look at this before they embarrass themselves further.
gardenbird48 · 22/12/2020 22:06

the BBC has now removed it from the main pages and you can only access the article if you search on it as far as I can see.

I hadn't twigged previously that it was in the Education section - surely it should have been deleted in the Health section?? Why on earth would they have it in Education? Sadly the damage has now been done though ..

Tim Davie had said that anyone who breached impartiality could be sacked - obviously I don't want anyone to lose their job but Ben Hunte needs to pull his socks up and get the hang of fact-checking!

Needmoresleep · 22/12/2020 23:45

Ben Hunte is a serial offender. He appears to has misunderstood his brief. He is supposed to be reporting on trans issues, not promoting trans ideology.

The article is still on his Twitter.

statsgeek1 · 23/12/2020 00:00

If you don't like it please tell those parents who are worried and tell those children that are distraught that you know what is best for them. Doing nothing is not a negative act.

who

statsgeek1 · 23/12/2020 00:05

Imagine the BBC went along with general anti trans bias and then one of their reporters tried a bit of balance.

HecatesCatsInXmasHats · 23/12/2020 00:09

@statsgeek1

If you don't like it please tell those parents who are worried and tell those children that are distraught that you know what is best for them. Doing nothing is not a negative act.

who

Is it better to tell them and their kids that they're at increased risk of suicide? I can't tell you how far we've come from reasonable handling and reporting of these cases. This is seriously beyond the pale: no one should be telling young people they're at risk of suicide, all efforts should be going into calm psychological support.
donquixotedelamancha · 23/12/2020 00:31

Christ Hecate'scat (You must have seen the movie; you must have read the book; he's a mellow, yellow feline...thanks, now I can't get rid of that song), even I don't bother trying to discuss with the ones who can't string a sentence together and I'm terrible for being drawn in.

donquixotedelamancha · 23/12/2020 00:32

Doing nothing is not a negative act.

I concur :-) watchful waiting is best.

Datun · 23/12/2020 00:35

@statsgeek1

If you don't like it please tell those parents who are worried and tell those children that are distraught that you know what is best for them. Doing nothing is not a negative act.

who

Take it up with the high court. Unless you have seen the thousand pages of evidence and know better.

And while you're at it have a stab at explaining to a prepubescent minor what life without orgasm is like. Or sterility. Or being a medical patient forever.

HecatesCatsInXmasHats · 23/12/2020 00:35

Oh I'm just perimemopausally putting the house to bed and failing to resist temptation (they includes the quality street).

HecatesCatsInXmasHats · 23/12/2020 00:35

That not they, honestly I'll get to grips with auto-correct one day

yourhairiswinterfire · 23/12/2020 00:36

@statsgeek1

If you don't like it please tell those parents who are worried and tell those children that are distraught that you know what is best for them. Doing nothing is not a negative act.

who

The Tavistock has created this mess, because they're a fucking joke. The shameless orgs and media outlets telling gender dysphoric children that they should be feeling suicidal have caused this mess.

We don't have to 'tell' any parents or kids anything. If the ''professionals'' had done their jobs properly in the first place, this wouldn't be happening. Direct your anger at them.

donquixotedelamancha · 23/12/2020 00:42

Oh I'm just perimemopausally putting the house to bed and failing to resist temptation (they includes the quality street).

You are making me hungry. Orange and purple for the win.

statsgeek1 · 23/12/2020 00:46

'nodbadconsidering'

Why would you be cross with the surgeons? i grew up as a trans child in the late 1970's and was taken to Alder Hay in 1979 to 'help me'. Jeepers can you imagine what they did? I transitioned under Exeter GIC in 2014 and surgically under Brighton shortly after and now live my life without your interference. Please just leave those children alone.

Typesofcatalogue · 23/12/2020 00:52

He will also reach adulthood with normal growth, bone density, fertility and be able to have sex and achieve orgasm,

And if he isn’t able to have sex because he is so embarrassed to let anyone see him naked or even see or touch his genitals because he is so disgusted by his masculinity? What about the ones that have to endure that pain? Or do you not think they exist? Or that they can just be cured with some counselling?

statsgeek1 · 23/12/2020 00:55

Imagine, the BBC have presented anti trans articles without rbuttal for months. One article with facts has generated so much disgust really surprises me. The only way to go is to support trans fok. xx

OldCrone · 23/12/2020 00:57

Imagine, the BBC have presented anti trans articles without rbuttal for months.

Have they? I must have missed them all. Can you post some links?

Datun · 23/12/2020 00:57

Typesofcatalogue

Why don't you direct your energies to the causes of gender dysphoria?

Instead of telling little kids they can change sex?

Why have all these children developed gender dysphoria? What's causing dozens of girls in one year group to develop it?

Do you have any answers?

OldCrone · 23/12/2020 00:57

Sorry. Did I misunderstand? Did you mean that you imagined them all?

Datun · 23/12/2020 01:00

Please just leave those children alone.

You took the words right out of the judge's mouth there. Sorry three judges.

yourhairiswinterfire · 23/12/2020 01:00

@statsgeek1

'nodbadconsidering'

Why would you be cross with the surgeons? i grew up as a trans child in the late 1970's and was taken to Alder Hay in 1979 to 'help me'. Jeepers can you imagine what they did? I transitioned under Exeter GIC in 2014 and surgically under Brighton shortly after and now live my life without your interference. Please just leave those children alone.

So you transitioned as an adult then? No one gives a fuck what adults do to themselves, this is about children not being able to consent to being experimented on.

Leave the kids alone indeed, it's awful how determined people are to destroy safeguarding, and seem to think ''trans kids'' deserve a horrifically lower standard of care than any other kid in this country.

OldCrone · 23/12/2020 01:03

@Typesofcatalogue

He will also reach adulthood with normal growth, bone density, fertility and be able to have sex and achieve orgasm,

And if he isn’t able to have sex because he is so embarrassed to let anyone see him naked or even see or touch his genitals because he is so disgusted by his masculinity? What about the ones that have to endure that pain? Or do you not think they exist? Or that they can just be cured with some counselling?

It would be interesting to know what happened to all the children like that in the past. They obviously didn't all transition as adults, because there'd be millions of trans adults now if that were the case. (Obviously those with ladydicks and those who have fathered children don't count, because they obviously weren't that disgusted by their genitals.)

In particular, given the huge number of girls identifying as transgender and the miniscule number of adult women transitioning, it seems that many of them can go on to live happy lives as adults without any interference with their bodies as adolescents.

TheGreatSloth · 23/12/2020 01:05

For those people who are horrified by the Bell judgment, what part of the judgment itself do you think is in error?

Do you think Gillick competence is not relevant at all in this specific context (puberty blockers used in the context of gender dysphoria rather than precocious puberty) ?

If so, what is it about this specific context which means this?

Or do you think Gillick competence should be irrelevant in all contexts (not just this specific one)?

If Gillick competence is irrelevant (either in all contexts or this specific context) what would you replace it with in that context?

Are you perhaps suggesting that a child’s mental competence to make decisions about say medical treatment in some contexts is utterly irrelevant?

If so how would that work? Are you envisaging all decision making power in that context being given to the child, regardless of competence - so that a child who is not mentally competent would nevertheless be empowered to make binding decisions about treatment? Perhaps on the basis of an age limit - say, anyone aged 11 or over can make binding decisions about medical treatment?

Or are you envisaging that all decisions about a child’s medical treatment in that context should always be removed from the child and made by someone else (who?) - so that for instance that person should always be able to require a child to take puberty blockers even if the child doesn’t want them, regardless of the child’s level of understanding? Or to have a blood transfusion when the child doesn’t want it?

You’re going to have to choose one of these two unattractive options if you reject the applicability of competence tests entirely in some (or all) contexts - which? Empower the child to make all decisions (maybe subject to an age limit), or take decision making powers out of the child’s hands & give them to someone else? (The whole point of a competence test is to avoid having to choose one of these options.)

If you think instead the judgment misinterprets the tests that should be applied to determine Gillick competence, where specifically do you think it has gone wrong?

What do you think the specific tests for demonstrating Gillick competence in this context should be?

What would the implications of these tests be for the other contexts where Gillick competence is applied?

Would these alternative tests also have implications for other areas where an age limit (rather than a competence test) is applied - such as a child’s ability to consent to sexual activity? Or to the age of criminal responsibility?

What do you think the point of competence tests is; and why do we have them in some contexts, and age limits in others?

Saying ‘I hated my male puberty’ doesn’t even begin to answer these questions, and that’s an understatement.

Swipe left for the next trending thread