Ben Hunte BBC article about puberty blocker ban

[risefromyourgrave]

Not biased at all maybe they’re trying to appease the people upset by big meanie Amol Rajan....

www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-55369784

'Caredune' - It is not badly resarched. It just asks for the opinions of parents who have children affected by the decision. Your want of a stop of any treatment is not a neutral act. No doubt trans people and their Dr's will continue to act in accordance with WPATH guideline that be via Gender GP OR A.n.OTHER

Yoe need to look further afield to harm kids... good luck

Yoe need to look further afield to harm kids... good luck

Why do people talk like this? What is it suppose to achieve?

@statsgeek1

'nodbadconsidering'

Why would you be cross with the surgeons? i grew up as a trans child in the late 1970's and was taken to Alder Hay in 1979 to 'help me'. Jeepers can you imagine what they did? I transitioned under Exeter GIC in 2014 and surgically under Brighton shortly after and now live my life without your interference. Please just leave those children alone.

Because they promise what they can’t deliver. They promise they can create a vagina. But they can’t. They promise they can preserve sexual function, but they’re operating on prepubertal tissue that hasn’t developed through puberty so there’s no sexual function to preserve. They purposefully create a surgical result that will need lifelong monitoring and revision on multiple occasions and frequent antibiotics to keep remotely healthy. And they do this with the intention it will make patients happier, when the evidence now shows that it doesn’t improve mental health.

You are an adult. Surgery on adult tissue is vastly different to surgery on prepubertal tissue. Even the surgeons themselves, Marcie Bowers and Jess Ting admit the surgery is experimental.

I completely agree these children should be left alone, and I don’t see how leaving them alone means “leave them alone to have their surgery unchallenged”.

Thegreatsloth, this is an excellent question you ask but I doubt you will get an answer. I really think very few people have read the judgment let alone have the ability to pick out parts they actually disagree with. It’s ironic seeing some posters talk about standards of health care for trans children - this judgment ensures that trans kids get the same high quality care as anyone else ... care they weren’t getting.

. We might not like it but, ignoring them is an awful dereliction of duty.As it stands children will be likely to be treated in accordance with WPATH (AUS, CAN, NTH.FRA, and DEU, ) AND BY Gender GP . There is nothing that can be done to stop that. We are against the medical profession but we need a way ahead.

@Impatiens

Yoe need to look further afield to harm kids... good luck

Why do people talk like this? What is it suppose to achieve?

Desperate deflection as the ship they're on sinks. It's too late though, we've all already seen who is truly harming kids.

Easier to come and blame/take it out on women though than to admit that the useless morons they championed that are in charge of these kids have fucked up big time.

AND BY Gender GP . There is nothing that can be done to stop that

Parents buying hormones online for children who cannot consent deserve social services at their door. You do something to a child when the child can't consent (the words of 3 high court judges) then that's abuse, pure and simple.

I wouldn't be so sure that there's nothing that can be done to stop it. Maybe they can't stop the GenderGP ghouls from operating, but there are options to stop the kids and their parents here in the UK accessing the experimental drugs.

No one advocates doing absolutely nothing for these kids. What we advocate for is appropriate mental health support to deal with what their going through. The fact child, adolescent and youth mental health services all around the world are underfunded, understaffed and ill-equipped to deal with these patients should not mean that they should be set on a lifelong pathway of medicalisation that results in physical harm instead.

Why is no one at the BBC ranting about lack of access to mental health services for this apparent huge cohort of suicidal kids? After all that’s the treatment for suicidal intent: mental health support.

@statsgeek1

. We might not like it but, ignoring them is an awful dereliction of duty.As it stands children will be likely to be treated in accordance with WPATH (AUS, CAN, NTH.FRA, and DEU, ) AND BY Gender GP . There is nothing that can be done to stop that. We are against the medical profession but we need a way ahead.

A suspended doctor convicted of running an illegal clinic? And, er, you might want to take a look at WPATH's latest announcement.

Probably feeling a little lonely over there on that side of history, eh?

Excellent questions from TheGreatSloth.

statsgeek1 I, too, am interested in your thoughts on Gillick Competence and how you think it should be applied.

I will also never fail to be amazed by those who transition as adults who seemingly have no understanding that not every child who claims to be trans will want to transition as an adult. Yes, a small percentage do. They are the ones who transition as adults. However, we know that the majority of children, when left to go through puberty, will desist.

What is the justification for putting children on a medical pathway when chances are the majority would ultimately reconcile with their bodies?

And why is there no acknowledgement that the current cohort of girls and young women in their teens and 20s currently transitioning is an entirely new phenomenon?

statsgeek1 what is your solution for preventing future situations like Keira Bell? She's not alone, you know. There are plenty of detransitioners out there on YouTube if you care to look, so please don't tell me she's an isolated case.

Not only that, but we have no way of knowing whether any of the children who will be transgender adults will be the type of transgender adults who want to undertake hormone treatment and surgery. We know there are many, many trans adults who don’t change their bodies in any way medically - Alex Drummond for example - and have no intention of doing so, and argue that they don’t need to to justify their trans existence. Why are we denying these children of following that pathway also? The pathway of expression of many, many adults we hear about?

The only possible answer is that gender dysphoria is a requirement of being trans, which is an idea rejected by many activists and Stonewall and earns those trans people who claim as such the derogatory label “truscum”.

Can anyone explain how we know these children won’t all eventually be the future Alex Drummonds of the world?

What should we do for suicidal children who do not identify as trans?

Children and young people kill themselves over bullying. Maybe medical procedures and anti- depressants all round?

@EdgeOfACoin

Excellent questions from TheGreatSloth.

statsgeek1 I, too, am interested in your thoughts on Gillick Competence and how you think it should be applied.

I will also never fail to be amazed by those who transition as adults who seemingly have no understanding that not every child who claims to be trans will want to transition as an adult. Yes, a small percentage do. They are the ones who transition as adults. However, we know that the majority of children, when left to go through puberty, will desist.

What is the justification for putting children on a medical pathway when chances are the majority would ultimately reconcile with their bodies?

And why is there no acknowledgement that the current cohort of girls and young women in their teens and 20s currently transitioning is an entirely new phenomenon?

statsgeek1 what is your solution for preventing future situations like Keira Bell? She's not alone, you know. There are plenty of detransitioners out there on YouTube if you care to look, so please don't tell me she's an isolated case.

Thank you Edge

I had written a very similar post and deleted it in the wee hours. The lack of acknowledgement of the differences between mature males transitioner experiences and the current cohort is never, never acknowledged. I have felt the I am constantly repeating myself over the past week. Not once has their been a reply.

Not once.

The care seems to be focused on having less cosmetic surgery. There is no acknowledgement that 75% of these young people are FEMALE. And the drugs are not reversible (bone density and joint issues are experienced 10-15 years on in the women who took the drugs to delay puberty !!!!! Or are teeth falling out just acceptable collateral? The effect on mental development is also well documented. Also acceptable??

And CSH quickly are completely irreversible for women. This is so very different for males on estrogen.

This lack of acknowledgement is hugely dangerous because it leads to a group of children and teens being told early is the best by all these well meaning, I am sure, people, who may feel they strongly identify as they do. But from a life where they got have sex and have orgasms, and some even have their own children.

Another great letter, this time from a group of doctors.

twitter.com/lascapigliata8/status/1341533242168631301?s=19

But also winesalot who on the whole are a different sex from the swathes of teenagers wanting to transition now

What an excellent letter. So many professionals stepping out of the fear closet and standing up for the safety of children using facts and professional expertise. Well done all of them.

[quote Imnobody4]Another great letter, this time from a group of doctors.

twitter.com/lascapigliata8/status/1341533242168631301?s=19[/quote]
That's an excellent letter

Great letter.

@Datun

Typesofcatalogue

Why don't you direct your energies to the causes of gender dysphoria?

Instead of telling little kids they can change sex?

Why have all these children developed gender dysphoria? What's causing dozens of girls in one year group to develop it?

Do you have any answers?

Will we ever truly know the cause of gender dysphoria for sure? What matters are practical solutions. Sometimes that means the least worst option.

I don’t tell children they can change sex. I was talking about someone going through adolescence and not being able to start having some of the experiences their peers do because of dysphoria.

There’s likely lots of reasons it’s happening. The fact that there is currently a cultural phenomenon driving 100s of girls to present with some sort of dysphoria (unrelated to transsexuality) doesn’t mean within that there isn’t a much smaller group of genuine gender dysphoric children who will never grow out of it and for whom transition might be the only treatment at some point.

The fact that there is currently a cultural phenomenon driving 100s of girls to present with some sort of dysphoria (unrelated to transsexuality) doesn’t mean within that there isn’t a much smaller group of genuine gender dysphoric children who will never grow out of it and for whom transition might be the only treatment at some point.

The answer isn't getting them all on puberty blockers for the benefit of the tiny % whose dysphoria will persist though, is it? Because it seems that that is what's happening.

There’s likely lots of reasons it’s happening. The fact that there is currently a cultural phenomenon driving 100s of girls to present with some sort of dysphoria (unrelated to transsexuality) doesn’t mean within that there isn’t a much smaller group of genuine gender dysphoric children who will never grow out of it and for whom transition might be the only treatment at some point.

How do you determine who belongs to which group, before embarking on the road to lifelong medicalisation?

I was talking about someone going through adolescence and not being able to start having some of the experiences their peers do because of dysphoria

Puberty blockers prevent adolescents from having the same experiences as their non-puberty-blocked peers.

It would be interesting to know what happened to all the children like that in the past. They obviously didn't all transition as adults, because there'd be millions of trans adults now if that were the case. (Obviously those with ladydicks and those who have fathered children don't count, because they obviously weren't that disgusted by their genitals.)

Yes it would be interesting. The lack of follow up in transsexual medicine has been shocking. Not sure how much is failure of the system or patients not wanting to be involved. It’s possible many people want to move on from their past both those who do and those who don’t transition. Either way they probably don’t want to be reminded about what they went through, or didn’t go through and moved on from (people like Stella O’Malley being the exception as she talks about it).

Not sure about that.. some people are more dysphoric about secondary characteristics than primary. Same happens with some trans men, they give birth.

it seems that many of them can go on to live happy lives as adults without any interference with their bodies as adolescents.

Most probably. Hopefully.

The answer isn't getting them all on puberty blockers for the benefit of the tiny % whose dysphoria will persist though, is it?

No it isn’t. It’s a dilemma for the clinicians, an almost impossible task. Mistakes either way result in painful outcomes.

@PlantMam

I was talking about someone going through adolescence and not being able to start having some of the experiences their peers do because of dysphoria

Puberty blockers prevent adolescents from having the same experiences as their non-puberty-blocked peers.

Some people who are gender (sex) dysphoric about their bodies don’t have any sexual relationships at all.