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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

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Original poster

Thank you

195 replies

CAPTCHAchacha · 19/12/2020 20:39

I’m a guy (i.e. snips and snails and puppy dogs tails, as opposed to a shifting constellation of whatever), and I’ve been around mumsnet long enough to know that’s usually the wrong way to start a post, but I figure it’s relevant. I found my way to FWR earlier this year, and credit it with helping me make the escape from the fiendishly addictive but ultimately unsatisfying AIBU.

While this board wasn’t my introduction to trans issues, it was the first place that showed me why it might be a good idea to start paying attention. I’d never had to consider how women are being affected. Between you, Magdalen Berns, and the thousand links I’ve probably followed by now, I consider myself reasonably well informed.

After the latest epic thread (the one where I’d wager a certain someone probably climaxed to have gotten those particular last words in), I just wanted to say thanks to all those who put so much work into their posts, particularly when you can never be certain your contributions won’t disappear should the thread take a wrong turn.

“The real world will always frustrate you if you refuse to see it for what it is,” said the cat in the hat, and I couldn’t agree more.

OP posts:

picklemewalnuts · 19/12/2020 20:44

Drat. Looks like I've missed a corker. Better go and see...

PotholeParadies · 19/12/2020 20:48

It's nice to be reminded that there are lurkers and our posts might be doing some good there! It's very easy to get caught up in the discussion itself, where no-one ever changes their mind.

Highwind · 19/12/2020 20:50

Hi! I am also really appreciative of this board for very similar reasons. Tryly an eye-opener.

And It appears I have missed out on an interesting thread then! That’s a shame :( ... was it archived I wonder?

JustSpeculation · 19/12/2020 20:51

Lots of lurkers. Social media as a spectator sport. Literate and fun. And thought provoking. Keep it up.

picklemewalnuts · 19/12/2020 20:55

Ah, that one!

I can't follow all the threads I'd love to- my brain frazzles and I have to switch off. I dip in and out of lots threads, rarely last the full course.

I will never stop being thankful for the clearsighted feminists who have hung on in there.

PotholeParadies · 19/12/2020 20:56

Thread is still there.

It was this one

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4104554-Can-someone-please-explain-trans

Gncq · 19/12/2020 20:59

Now I'm just like, which epic thread but dammit TAATs are deleted....

Glad you've found information on this sub-section useful OP, I also do xx

Highwind · 19/12/2020 20:59

[quote PotholeParadies]Thread is still there.

It was this one

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4104554-Can-someone-please-explain-trans[/quote]
Thank you!

.... though it is just childish and ill-informed slogans again. Dunno why I expected anything of substance from that particular group. Oh well.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 19/12/2020 21:01

After the latest epic thread (the one where I’d wager a certain someone probably climaxed to have gotten those particular last words in),

Quite

SittingAround1 · 19/12/2020 21:01

Thanks from me too.
I don't have time to post that often or follow the more epic threads but I do a lot of reading here and have learnt a lot.

OldLang · 19/12/2020 21:08

Ah famous last words right enough. Too bad that it's a complete fallacy.
Well, if TWAW, then aren't we all just women with no prefixes, hence the trans descriptor ceasing to mean anything? Thus 'trans rights' also needing no extra support or protection etc. since we are all equally members of the category of woman. The irony.

Winesalot · 19/12/2020 21:09

I think those final words were fitting actually. It highlighted just how ridiculous that slogan really is when a poster is as wedded to ideology as they are. It shows how far they are down a rabbit hole.

OldLang · 19/12/2020 21:14

@Winesalot

Quite.

Seemed a fitting summary of 40 pages of (mostly) thoughtful contribution utterly ignored in favour of blind subscription to an inherently flawed ideology. In other words, us women don't matter as a man has had his say and we must agree.

nauticant · 19/12/2020 21:16

Lurking is good, no one should feel they have to post, but if you do get the chance, try to discuss this with people you know. In a video call earlier I did a "you wouldn't believe what's been happening" and explained that in Scotland there had been considerable resistance to rape victims being able to specify the sex of their forensic medical examiner.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 19/12/2020 21:17

Yes, exactly.

KittyValentine · 19/12/2020 21:31

I’d wager a certain someone probably climaxed to have gotten those particular last words in

DrDavidBanner · 19/12/2020 21:43

It was eye opening for sure

The thing that I find most interesting is I know some very "blokey" men who seemingly have no interest in feminist issues whatsoever who have more understanding and empathy than some individuals who "identify as women" will ever have.

aliasundercover · 19/12/2020 22:18

The most disappointing thing about that thread was oldcrone's question remaining unanswered:

Positrans

You transitioned as an adult, and you've mentioned having a daughter. I assume therefore that you have used your female penis to have sex and father your child.

Why then are you so keen to deny 'transgender' children the ability to enjoy having sexual relationships as adults and to have their own children?

Early transition where a child never goes through puberty will leave them infertile and with impaired sexual function. What is your motivation for campaigning for more children to be treated with these drugs with such an appalling outcome?

Positrans talked an awful lot about transwomen 'yearning' to have a child, but never got around to answering that one.

Winesalot · 19/12/2020 22:39

Of course alias a version of that has been asked to all the current male regulars. They either don’t acknowledge that they are middle aged males with children (at least two of them have) advocating for destroy the fertility and potentially the sex life of children and young adults.

Or they cover up the hypocrisy with ‘nothing wrong with asexual’ and ‘adopt’ or ‘freeze eggs/sperm’. The relevant poster today hand waved it away similarly and took the freeze eggs route. Neglecting to acknowledge that very young females have many risks with the drugs to hyper stimulate egg production. And these eggs have low chance of success.

Bit of course, the complete lack of empathy was obvious and I can only surmise they would not care anyway. They never answered when it was pointed out.

It is just highlights the misogyny when someone does this. And the lack of actual care for the best individual treatment options for these young people. It is also all about their own projection.

EdgeOfACoin · 19/12/2020 22:59

I was busy today so had to catch up on the discussion just now. It became more fascinating with every page.

Is it too much to hope that a politician or two may have stumbled upon that conversation? It was, I feel, hugely illuminating. I also hope the OP is able to go back and digest it all.

HecatesCatsInXmasHats · 19/12/2020 23:13

Hi OP. There's so much to learn here! What I find fascinating is the way certain posters remain so wedded to their view in the face of extremely knowledgeable and articulate women who are in possession of a wealth of experience. They almost never back down, accept any points, or modify their arguments, which I'm afraid (no offence to you) just smacks of male conditioning. They're not interested in the female perspective.

Original poster

CAPTCHAchacha · 19/12/2020 23:58

This always strikes me, too. Most conversations seem to be with ideologies rather than with people who might be willing to concede they’re wrong about something. And always the questions that are ignored because an honest answer might come across as capitulation.

As was put very well: “A suggestion OP. If you read any of the posts on this thread and find them to be describing things that don't seem to make sense or are incomprehensible feel free to assume that they're actually wrong rather than assuming that there's some profound complexity you don't understand.”

While I generally think it takes guts to speak up in a forum where you know you’re going to be in the extreme minority, if you’re not willing to truly engage, you may as well be a ‘bot.

OP posts:

Fernlake · 20/12/2020 00:03

@Ereshkigalangcleg

After the latest epic thread (the one where I’d wager a certain someone probably climaxed to have gotten those particular last words in),

Quite

It's a real show up in my opinion. Revealing the adversarial nature of their contribution.

Not that anyone thinks it's anything other than that. It's just a complete confirmation.

Usernamenotava1lable · 20/12/2020 00:51

I'm not a guy, but otherwise could have written 23:58CAPTCHAchacha's opening post word for word.

SophocIestheFox · 20/12/2020 06:57

While I generally think it takes guts to speak up in a forum where you know you’re going to be in the extreme minority, if you’re not willing to truly engage, you may as well be a ‘bot.

Agree. I don’t expect to change the minds of the true believers- I’m not debating with them. I’m posting for the lurkers, and happy to just let the posters expound on their theories, which tend to get more and more baroque the longer you go

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