Most child sexual abuse gangs made up of white men - Home Office report

[stumbledin]

Study of England, Scotland and Wales dispels myth of ‘Asian grooming gangs’ popularised by far right

The majority of child sexual abuse gangs are made up of white men under the age of 30, an official paper has said.

It found that while offenders come from diverse backgrounds, groups tended to be of men of the same ethnicities. Money and sex were motivations as well as a sexual interest in children and misogyny, the review said.

www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/dec/15/child-sexual-abuse-gangs-white-men-home-office-report

Ok, if a thug puts burning dog shit through the letter box of a Pakistani family, does the race of the thug matter?

If it's a racially aggravated crime then yes. BTW in the Telford grooming gang case. A victim, along with her mother and sister, was murdered when their house was burnt down by one of the gang

Does his race make it easier to convict him? Or should he be caught and punished for this no matter who he is?

Of course people should be punished if they commit a crime but in too many cases of grooming gangs, many crimes went unpunished because the authorities feared being accused of racism. Ironically the racist perpetrators were protected because of their race. The white victims were denied justice because of their race

Even if the girls were targeted because of their races ( I think they were targeted because they were vulnerable, and it's harder to get in trouble if you don't shit on your own doorstep) the point is the girls were not protected from rapists.

Racially aggravated crimes carry a higher sentence, but the girls are white, the criminal perpetrators are not white. A widespread belief now is that white people cannot be victims of racism because "structures" and all that other stuff coming from the USA. So unfortunately things will only get worse for the girls and young women of the areas where these racially aggravated crimes are being committed.

Racially aggravated crimes carry a higher sentence, but the girls are white, the criminal perpetrators are not white. A widespread belief now is that white people cannot be victims of racism because "structures" and all that other stuff coming from the USA. So unfortunately things will only get worse for the girls and young women of the areas where these racially aggravated crimes are being committed.

Yes. This is one reason why I object to the concept of hate crimes in principle. Because for every perpetrator, you then create a class of victims where the penalty is lowest. So setting aside the “whites cannot be victims of racism” idea for now, if you have Asian attacking Asian, or White attacking White- the penalty for the exact same crime is lower and this therefore encourages perpetrators to target their own ethnicity for likely victims. The victims worth is then not equal to other victims worth simply by virtue of their ethnicity matching their attackers ethnicity. This violates the basic human right that all should be equal before the law.

But then if you do also say, oh hate crime legislation excludes all white people, then you further worsen this inequality of victims’ worth before the law by making the penalty for a crime against white victims always the lower penalty and thus the worth of a white victim becomes lowest of all ethnicities.

@Frouby

The main issue, speaking as someone who lives in Rotherham and am old enough to have had friends suffer from the first proven cse cases, the issue isn't that asian men abuse women, it's an issue with it being ignored and covered up by the authorities. That's what makes the abuse of girls by asian men such a contentious issue.

And the % population of asian men vs white men.

I would say more specifically its men in those positions of authority making the decision of who they don't want to offend (spoiler it was men they don’t want to offend for fear of appearing racist whereas there is no social stigma to ignoring women)

PlanDeRaccordement

Yes, you have solved the equation.
The level of abuse in this situation, for some reason absolves the perpetrator from racial and sexual abuse.
It is disgusting IMHO.

Flaxmeadow

You totally get it. My DW agrees with you, she is from Asia.

@Savourysenorita

So now race relations take priority over those victims. Great

They always did, hence the initial inaction. It’s such a disingenuous article.

The issue people had was that there was inaction due to ethnicity of the men involved, not wanting to stir up racial tensions.

I’ve never ever heard anyone say only Asian men are involved in grooming gangs of any kind.

Tortola straw man bullshit, bet I’ve come to expect nothing less from the ‘progressive left’ and the utter rag that is the guardian

I still think it's an excuse for not bothering because of who the victims were.

If a woman who was married to a judge or the chief of police or something was attacked by a man from X ethnic background they'd not be saying oh can't look into that.

I know it's complex and community relations did come into play etc but for me the sexism and classism is paramount.

The police don't seem so fussed about community relations when eg they wasn't to shoot a man, lie about it, and then get massive riots as a result.

@NiceGerbil

One thing in common they're all men.

Yes. Always this point.

The Asians who groomed and sexually asaulted these girls, only did this to white girls. They wouldn't do this to girls of their own race. The fact that the white girls were vulnerable just made it easier for them.
So they were racist.

That's not true though I don't think.

Upthread says Sikh girls were targeted.

Have you RTFT.

My understanding is that vulnerable girls in the Asian community were also targeted.

I do think the class and specific vulnerabilities of the dc who were in care were a significant issue.

But the an issue that was discussed at the meetings I attended on the subject expressed concern about race relations.

The poor quality of witnesses that the girls would make because of their choices was discussed. Also the difficult of protecting girls who were determined to spend time with the gangs was raised.
It wasn't a simple one issue problem but race was definitely a factor.

This doesn't mean that most of the sex offenders we worked with either individuals or groups weren't white. They were.

I'm not a huge fan of Carl Benjamin but The Podcast of the Lotus Eaters #27 (YouTube channel) have discussed the report and the Guardian article which they conclude is quite misleading.

This article from 2018 in the Guardian, uses information from the Quilliam Report (Haras Rafiq and Muna Adil) claims that 84% of grooming gang offenders are Asian.

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/nov/11/84-per-cent-of-grooming-gangs-are-asians-we-dont-know-if-that-figure-is-right

Sajid Javid, then home secretary did not shy away from the problem and supported Sarah Champion, Labour MP for Rotherham.

news.sky.com/story/sajid-javid-orders-research-into-ethnicity-of-grooming-gangs-and-victims-11449198

The following report describes how 9 men (8 of Pakistani descent) preyed on underage victims, all of whom were white. I cannot link the PDF because the link is to my C Drive.

Child Grooming and Sexual Exploitation: Are South Asian Men the UK media's New Folk Devils?
By Aisha K Gill and Karen Harrison

"Over the last four years, the United Kingdom (UK) has been beset by a moral panic concerning ‘South Asian men’ grooming white girls for sexual exploitation. This moral panic derived from a number of well‐publicised cases, the most infamous of which took place in Rochdale, Greater Manchester. Here, a group of nine men, eight of Pakistani origin or descent, preyed on under‐aged white girls for sex before trafficking them for prostitution. The men involved were convicted of rape as well as conspiracy to engage in sexual activity with children, trafficking for sexual exploitation, sexual activity with a girl under sixteen, aiding and abetting rape, and sexual assault. Further grooming rings involving South Asian men and white under‐aged girls were simultaneously exposed in Derby, Shropshire, Oxford, Telford and Middlesbrough, while similar cases in Preston and Rotherham had already gone to trial."

Another realistic article.

careappointments.com/features/engage-2/140460/engage-asian-grooming-gangs-how-ethnicity-made-authorities-wary-of-investigating-child-sexual-abuse/

"The five-year investigation conducted by the IOPC, codenamed Operation Lindon, has produced a highly critical report. It states that the South Yorkshire police were scared to take action against a group of Asian men who were sexually abusing a young girl for fear of triggering unrest in the Asian community and being branded racist. Instead, they did little to disrupt the gang and safeguard the vulnerable victim and other young girls, even though they knew they were being subjected to horrendous sexual abuse."

"As a criminologist and former senior detective I have interviewed numerous second generation Asian-Pakistani men convicted of grooming and sexually abusing young vulnerable white girls. The majority claimed they were innocent and put forward theories of how the government, police, judges and witnesses had conspired to wrongly convict them. It was also clear that they did not see their victims as children and therefore did not consider themselves to be sex offenders."

"The victims of child sexual exploitation in these cases were targeted because they were considered “available” by their circumstance and behaviour: they were in care, truanting from school, drinking alcohol, taking drugs, staying out late at night or being overtly sexual. The vast majority of victims were underage white girls. Their perceived availability and vulnerability led the perpetrators to believe, rightly, that these girls were unlikely to tell anyone what was happening to them."

This is the Hansard Parliamentary report from 2019.

hansard.parliament.uk/lords/2019-05-14/debates/349FA275-CB65-45C0-87C7-EE16D1FD1B0A/GroomingGangs

"Noble Lords may be aware of the case of Sarah—not her real name—which has been reported as one of the worst sex grooming cases on record. She describes how she was kidnapped aged 15, imprisoned in a house, forced to learn the Koran and beaten when she made mistakes. She was held as a sex slave for 12 years and was repeatedly raped by different members of the grooming gang. She had three forced Sharia marriages, eight forced abortions and two live births. Her abusers referred to her as “white trash”. They forced her to wear Islamic dress and permitted her to speak only Urdu and Punjabi. She has not received the help she needs from social services and is frequently suicidal."

It's overwhelmingly biological men who sexually abuse; same with war; domestic violence; murder; robbery; mutilation etc etc. The problem is largely the male of the species and how misogyny is accepted and allowed to dominate pretty much every area of life. The question is how do we as a society stop it?

pursuedbyablackdog

I couldn't agree more with your post. For millenia, men have started wars, treated women as second class citizens, or worse still as chattels. Men started religions to control people, to impose further restrictions on women.
So many countries/empires were formed by violence, led by men.
This thread however, is about something more specific

What a disgrace this post is.
It is people like you OP, who turned a blind eye to the rape and torture of thousands of young white girls by Muslim gangs.
Judging by the appalling news that is coming out now I hope you feel thoroughly ashamed of yourself.

i can’t help feeling (anecdotally and observationally) that the size of the ‘grooming gangs’ is linked to ethnicity and the links between men in those communities.

While there are absolutely white ‘grooming gangs’ and probably more of them, I think the average size is probably smaller as culturally white men are not as close knit or cohesive.

That's an important point, and it's why these gangs need to be looked at as a group with common features.

Absolutely agree, @greekdogrescue, that time and some diligence has proved that many of the 2020 commentators and commenters were just plain wrong.

But what do we do about it? Implementing all of Baroness Jay's recommendations would be a start

many of the 2020 commentators and commenters were just plain wrong

Many of them are still trotting out the same obfuscation talking points.

One would expect the majority of sex offenders of any type in the UK to be white men, since the demographic is c 86% white. That does not mean grooming gangs made up of Asian men are a 'myth' - evidence suggests the contrary. It is monstrously cruel and wicked to suggest that the experience of e.g. victims in Rotherham are a myth.

Which is also racist. There is great antipathy between Muslims and Sikhs.

I think the point at issue is that The Guardian offers no figures to back up its article, and deflect on the issue of Asian grooming gangs by saying that most sex offenders in this area are white so the Asian thing is a myth. Which is faulty logic. Most sex offenders could (will be in a majority white country) be white but that does not mean there are no Asian sex offenders - and some figures would be useful.
My late DH - a Youth Worker - remembered complaints about Asian men targetting young white girls in the 70s. The complaints were mainly from poor white families. He was ashamed that he and his colleagues had branded those complainants as racist.
That said, still most sex offenders in the UK will be white men.