Most child sexual abuse gangs made up of white men - Home Office report

[stumbledin]

Study of England, Scotland and Wales dispels myth of ‘Asian grooming gangs’ popularised by far right

The majority of child sexual abuse gangs are made up of white men under the age of 30, an official paper has said.

It found that while offenders come from diverse backgrounds, groups tended to be of men of the same ethnicities. Money and sex were motivations as well as a sexual interest in children and misogyny, the review said.

www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/dec/15/child-sexual-abuse-gangs-white-men-home-office-report

dispels myth of Asian grooming gangs' is massively offensive. Asian grooming gangs exist. Many of us work with the victims and communities shattered by these men's actions. Feel free to bring to light sex crimes of other sectors of society, but don't insult survivors of abuse by casually writing off their experience as 'a myth.'

I agree.

It's a BS article that doesn't give nearly enough detail in to the statistics used to make this statement.

The sources they are quoting seem questionable too.

I would imagine all crimes are committed by more white offenders than any other given the population. Perhaps there are moronic right-wingers who don't think that's the case but I don't believe they'll be reading the guardian. The question surely to be asked is about over-representation of any groups, and if it is happening, why?

What the report stresses is the absence of robust data on ethnicity. It is suggests that it is 'probably' in line with population as a whole but there's no clear evidence. What it does stress is
While there is therefore no evidence to suggest that efforts to identify and prevent group-based CSE offending should be limited to focusing on one particular community or culture, this does not mean that cultural characteristics of offender groups are irrelevant or should be ignored by local agencies. The significance of social networks to offending and the prevalence of ethnically and demographically homogenous groups suggests that an approach to deterring, disrupting,

This is a bullshit straw man article. It is the literal definition of rebutting a completely fictional and exaggerated position, and joy what anyone is seriously saying. Sure I’m sure you could probably roll out a seriously daft person who holds that view but it is in no way representative.

Also no need to focus on any specific community or group in order to “prevent”. Just listen to the bloody victims of it and take them seriously.

@GnomeOrMistAndIceGuy

'dispels myth of Asian grooming gangs' is massively offensive. Asian grooming gangs exist. Many of us work with the victims and communities shattered by these men's actions. Feel free to bring to light sex crimes of other sectors of society, but don't insult survivors of abuse by casually writing off their experience as 'a myth.'

Agree.

There are so many other towns where the same has happened but nothing has ever been done. My home town included.

Also given how much authorities ignored this for decades because of the fear of being accused of being racist I have very little faith that this or any study they carry out is in fact statistically or factually correct.

I'm actually a bit suspicious about the timing of this.

Without a proper comparison-is one made?-between representation in the total population and representation in the criminal activity, no proper conclusions can be drawn. I remember at the time of one of the first big convictions, the story was "White men make up more offenders". Then someone pointed out that White men make up more blood-doners, fathers, soldiers...

British Asian blood doners are less than 1.5% of the total, whereas they're 5% of the population, for instance. www.facebook.com/British.Asian.Blood.Donors/

Here are some useful stats from around the world:

100% of all crime on Paradise Island is carried out by women.
All rape victims in Sing-Sing are male.

Where are the white men from though?

Frouby - nothing I said bears any ressemblence to what you have concocted.

Seriously show me one instance where I have said anything about people in Rotheram being uneducated and racist. Cant you try and engage with the issue being discussed. Not say the same thing over and over again. This isn't about Rotheram. Please try and respect the fact that other children have been abused. Why do you keep going on about it. That's not because it wasn't a truely awful situation but about the fact that by focusing on the fact that in Rotheram it was Asian men, you allow everyone to ignore what other men are doing.

I was hoping that on mumsnet we could move on to a more sophiscated discussion about how men are responsible for abusing children.

we have a wide spread problem in this country that vulnerable children are not respected and cared for.

the authorities and sometimes the families tend to try and push it under the carpet. And yes issues of race and class are used not to properly investigate in all areas of the country.

Unless and until that issue is talked about as a male problem people will come up and with one sidetrack or another.

There has been other research on this, and in fact one male MP did try to get people to start talking about

And on one level it doesn't seem to matter the ethnicity or class the authorities do not do anything.

they end up blaming the children.

If you want to only talk about Rotherham at the expense of every other child in the country has been abused why dont you set up a thread about how the only case of child abuse that should be acknowledged is the one in Rotherham.

So well done what could have been a thread has been bogged down in a single issue at the expense of trying to discuss how wide spread this abuse is by MEN of all races, class, religion whatever.

I agree this report is flimsly, and there was an early report which did bring up common factors between groups of men, but the male MP who tried to get it discussed as a prolem about men, was ridiculed.

Sill I expect you will just ignore all of this and insist we only talk about Rotherham because presumably you think all other children dont have any rights.

Yes, I really just get the feeling that certain people don't give a fuck about the victims of these criminals, as long as no one is coming across as racist, it doesn't matter about the victims.

I agree that saying 'dispels the myth of Asian grooming gangs' is such an offensive way of wording things. What a slap in the face for those girls.

I also agree however, that the common factor in all of this is MEN though. Males, people with penises, XY. Of all races and cultures. It needs to be empathised over and over again.

Yes, men commit most crime. Men commit almost all violent crime. Men commit almost all sex crime. Men from all cultures commit these crimes. AND, there has been a problem of groups of men from a certain culture (NOT ethnicity-most South Asian men are not involved in trafficking girls) getting away with grooming and trafficking BECAUSE some councils and people in authority didn't want to rock the boat.
All of those things can be true.

Who says that sexual abuse gangs are all Asian? If that's the myth it doesn't seem all that prominent.

Yes, exactly.

Well also

The church
Childrens homes
Sports coaches
Politicians
70s celebrities

Etc etc

The problem is men. It has different mechanisms in different groups etc but in the end it's always men.

I feel that focusing on whether this sort of man is worse than that sort of man distracts from the fact both sorts of men contain men who commit sex offences.

The authorities weren exactly interested in looking into any of the above groups either. For different reasons.

The failure to see children as victims/ believe them seems pretty universal as well.

Yes look into the methods of grooming etc in the groups to try and safeguard etc but this argument over who is worse is a distraction I think.

Yes, I have never heard anyone say that all grooming gangs are made up solely of Asian men?

And yes, there was a very real problem that certain things were not investigated properly because of fears of being seen as 'racist'. The Guardian and Co couldn't give a fuck about that though.

OP I've never heard anyone suggest that it's only Asian men ( let's be honest here, it's Pakistani men from a small area) I would imagine the only people who do are far right who don't care about the rape of young girls, it's just convenient for their narrative
But the problem with the rape gangs in Rotherham and many other places is that the police refused to investigate due to fears of being branded racist. I have no doubt that there was also a general contempt for the girls involved

But another thing I'm fucking sick of the Guardian's totally biased reporting. It was a good newspaper, what the fuck has happened? Truth no longer seems important

I'm really surprised at The Guardian for publishing this. It's an utterly SH*T article with a questionable narrative, that doesn't even make sense.

It has more to do with them being male than any religion/ethnicity but people want to pretend its about religion/ethnicity so they dont have to deal with how our society protects men and supports this type of misogyny. Male predatory behaviour is a massive problem amongst men of all backgrounds in this country.

So now race relations take priority over those victims. Great

@stumbledin

Frouby - nothing I said bears any ressemblence to what you have concocted.

Seriously show me one instance where I have said anything about people in Rotheram being uneducated and racist. Cant you try and engage with the issue being discussed. Not say the same thing over and over again. This isn't about Rotheram. Please try and respect the fact that other children have been abused. Why do you keep going on about it. That's not because it wasn't a truely awful situation but about the fact that by focusing on the fact that in Rotheram it was Asian men, you allow everyone to ignore what other men are doing.

I was hoping that on mumsnet we could move on to a more sophiscated discussion about how men are responsible for abusing children.

we have a wide spread problem in this country that vulnerable children are not respected and cared for.

the authorities and sometimes the families tend to try and push it under the carpet. And yes issues of race and class are used not to properly investigate in all areas of the country.

Unless and until that issue is talked about as a male problem people will come up and with one sidetrack or another.

There has been other research on this, and in fact one male MP did try to get people to start talking about

And on one level it doesn't seem to matter the ethnicity or class the authorities do not do anything.

they end up blaming the children.

If you want to only talk about Rotherham at the expense of every other child in the country has been abused why dont you set up a thread about how the only case of child abuse that should be acknowledged is the one in Rotherham.

So well done what could have been a thread has been bogged down in a single issue at the expense of trying to discuss how wide spread this abuse is by MEN of all races, class, religion whatever.

I agree this report is flimsly, and there was an early report which did bring up common factors between groups of men, but the male MP who tried to get it discussed as a prolem about men, was ridiculed.

Sill I expect you will just ignore all of this and insist we only talk about Rotherham because presumably you think all other children dont have any rights.

I mention Rotherham as I live in the town, but also make clear it's not just Rotherham, it happens in other similar towns.

It is men that rape children, though there are cases of women being involved as well.

The article refers to Asian grooming gangs, claims there is no proof that there are more non Asian grooming gangs. I made the point that the ethnicity of the grooming gangs wasn't the main issue with the recent and very specific types of grooming and raping of children, the issue lies with the actions and inactions of the authorities which allowed it to continue. And reasons contributing to why it was covered up and why the right wing press, which you yoursel mention, have a captive audience.

The fact that ethnicity isn't accurately or reliably recorded I find difficult to believe, every single official form I complete has a part to record my race, religion, ethnicity, sexuality sometimes. The data will be there, even a list of names and the police photographs would provide the data. These are crimes, that is public record stuff, they just don't want to look for it because they want to know the facts, just deny that there was ever a problem.

And we could talk about abuse in the church, youth sports, the care services but the article was denying that asian grooming gangs are an issue on a societal level. Which those communities, not just Rotherham but Rochdale, Halifax and many more, would say is exactly the same sort of brushing under the carpet that caused the issues in the first place.

If you don't want to discuss asian grooming gangs, don't start a thread about one. Start one about men abusing children. You can't lead with an article that claims something like that and expect people not to comment.

For years the left flatly denied these street grooming crimes were going on and called anybody trying to raise them racist.
I see now they have moved on to deflecting.

The Guardian can piss off with their crap reporting. I’d like to a data-oriented journalist comment on this report because I am shit at understanding figures.
This looks like an important piece of gathering together of the current limited picture (due to limited data collection which in itself is scandalous). Sammy woodhouse was involved in the government steering group that put this out and I got a clearer sense of what the data limitations were from reading the government press release, which also has a link to the full report.. which the Guardian article didn’t seem to include :
www.gov.uk/government/news/priti-patel-publishes-paper-on-group-based-child-sexual-exploitation

I think each mode of operating deserves its own attention.

The treatment of the victims by the authorities seems to be the same across the board which needs attention of its own.

Oh come on, these racist myths absolutely exist, and they're so dangerous.

I've seen 50 MN threads that happened to involve a Muslim person or a Muslim issue get derailed into "but Muslims are evil because they sexually groom children and LIBERAL SNOWFLAKES cover it up because they don't want to be accused of being racist!!111!"

There's a fuckton of racism, white supremacy, and Islamophobia on Mumsnet. And Feminist Chat can sometimes be the very worst place for overt racism and white supremacy.

No one is saying that Asian grooming gangs do not exist, but all the evidence suggests that these gangs can be of any ethnicity. Pointing out facts doesn't belittle the suffering of victims, in fact the opposite - the racists on this board screaming about evil Asians are actually doing genuine harm to girls who have been victim to sexual abuse and grooming by grooming gangs comprised entirely of white men. Most sexual abuse and sexual grooming is committed by white men, by pushing the racist lie that it's primarily committed by Asian men you lessen the chance that victims of white groomers will be believed, lessen the chance they will be taken seriously, and belittle and undermine their pain and trauma.