Would you ok your son wearing a dress?

[KristinaJup]

Candace Owens recently tweeted (in response to Harry Styles wearing a dress on a magazine cover) "Bring Back Manly Men".. amongst other things.

Who really cares if a guy wears tutus and glittery dresses? Prince was hot af in his heels and Makeup.

Imo I would have no problem with it at all if my son wanted to put on a skirt but the tweet gained a lot of traction and I saw quite a few memes and lots of fingers pointed at feminism for "ruining men"

If we carry on this way the next thing will be....women should not be wearing trousers! What do you think?

It's so difficult. I want to say that I would have no problem with it at all. Intellectually, I know that there is no reason why skirts and dresses are reserved for females. It's just a cultural norm.

However, in reality, I think of the reaction that my (hypothetical) son would get from other people, including family members, and that would make me pause. I think my approach would depend on the age of the child and their level of understanding.

I'd also be worried about creating a 'forbidden fruit' situation if I made too big a deal about it.

Finally, when I see a clearly male child or adolescent dressed in a skirt and other "girls'" clothes, I assume that the child identifies as trans. I suppose if more boys wore skirts, then that assumption would drop away.

I think women started wearing trousers during the First World War when they had to take physical jobs while the men were away fighting. Dresses were impractical. The same thing happened during the Second World War, which probably entrenched the idea that women 'could' wear trousers. Without such a big reason for the change in fashion, I suspect it would have taken much longer before women started wearing trousers.

Unless there is a real reason for men to start wearing skirts en masse, including older and more conservative men, I feel that the shift to men wearing skirts will be slow. It is difficult to override cultural norms.

@ReeseWitherfork

The world has gone crazy that we're all judgey against mums who have some kind of societal boundaries/norms when bringing up their CHILDREN. Anyone that dares to say 'you know what. I would discourage my (under 18)son wearing a dress because I don't think it's "normal" in our society would be attacked left right and centre. Freedom of speech is only allowed to exist where its left wing - pc approved.

You feel judged and that your freedom of speech is being taken away from you because you wouldn't be happy with your son doing something that wasn't societally normal? But you can't see a scenario where your son would want to dress like Elsa, or put on his sisters skirt, or just wear something loose and floaty in the summer heat? Saying "no" to him is surely being judgemental and removing his freedoms?

I'm not attacking you at all, I can definitely see where you are coming from. But I also think if your son asked for a dress, or picked up a dress and put it on, for whatever reason, then you should be helping him navigate that and not stopping it.

To answer your question... I honestly cannot imagine my son ever asking to wear a dress. Honestly I can't. But if he asked to go out in a dress... Id tell him no. How exactly is sat it is neither here nor there. But no I wouldn't let him walk outside in a dress. Because whether or not we like it - our western UK societies norm is for boys NOT to wear dresses. Would you tell a Muslim they should feel free to eat pork if they wanted to because its a ridiculous notion that they shouldn't? No- because its their cultural norm and we respect that. Would you tell a lady from dubai that age should feel free to wear a bikini if she's hot in summer? No. Because we respect their cultural boundaries. Would you tell a jehovas witness they should feel free to celebrate christmas because their poor little children are missing out? No because you respect their culture. We leave them to it and don't try to rationalise their beliefs. Beliefs cannot always be rationalised. So what is wrong with having some very loose basic values, beliefs and "norms" that in general in our society little boys don't wear dresses? I'm fine with encouraging that belief. We're very lucky that in our society in adulthood we allow an adult to choose what the hell they like. But as a child it's my job as a parent to guide them into our world and as it stands the cultural accepted norm is not to wear a dress.

Reading some of the posts on this thread, it's a wonder that some women aren't still wearing corsets.

😂

Excellent post edge. Sums this up nicely.

I have no problem with him wearing whatever makes him happy.

But as soon as you impose societal norms you could be preventing your child growing up as themselves. You restrict their freedoms. You are accepting and reinforcing pointless limitations. Because they are pointless. Here we are as a society when many are wanting their freedoms not to wear a face mask that protects others, yet we seem to be willing to restrict aspects of dress that harms no one. Bonkers

Would you tell a Muslim they should feel free to eat pork if they wanted to because its a ridiculous notion that they shouldn't?

What an odd comment. If I knew a Muslim person wanted to eat pork I would probably say something that my understanding of the Islamic and Jewish prohibition on eating pork was related to health and safety reasons which no longer apply so if they want to eat pork why not (but could they make sure it's from free range, organic herds).

I do , I have to say, struggle with the idea of certain animals being treated as unclean. If a an all powerful, loving god made everything it's rather spiteful and vindictive to create sentient, intelligent animals like pigs and dogs to be despised- so yes I may well query that attitude.

@EdgeOfACoin

It's so difficult. I want to say that I would have no problem with it at all. Intellectually, I know that there is no reason why skirts and dresses are reserved for females. It's just a cultural norm.

However, in reality, I think of the reaction that my (hypothetical) son would get from other people, including family members, and that would make me pause. I think my approach would depend on the age of the child and their level of understanding.

I'd also be worried about creating a 'forbidden fruit' situation if I made too big a deal about it.

Finally, when I see a clearly male child or adolescent dressed in a skirt and other "girls'" clothes, I assume that the child identifies as trans. I suppose if more boys wore skirts, then that assumption would drop away.

I think women started wearing trousers during the First World War when they had to take physical jobs while the men were away fighting. Dresses were impractical. The same thing happened during the Second World War, which probably entrenched the idea that women 'could' wear trousers. Without such a big reason for the change in fashion, I suspect it would have taken much longer before women started wearing trousers.

Unless there is a real reason for men to start wearing skirts en masse, including older and more conservative men, I feel that the shift to men wearing skirts will be slow. It is difficult to override cultural norms.

I think that's one of the most sensible and honest posts on this thread.

I agree with what you say. I wouldn't have stopped my son wearing a dress when I had any control over him and should he start now I wouldn't comment disparagingly. Inside however I'd probably be thinking -"it's not a great look".

I don't think many men look particularly good in dresses. (I think there is a huge application on this thread of the FWR rose- tinted glasses about the masses of fabulous dress- wearing men in the 70s,80s and 90s ) Tbh apart from Kurt Cobain I can't think of any others. Cobain was such a pretty man and he looks completely at ease in his (apart from that awful yellow one in the Head Bangers' Ball interview)

I don't think it's particularly to do with not having busts and hips- plenty of dresses don't need that body shape- these for example. None of the models have noticable busts and hips.

www.and-daughter.com/collections/dresses

I do like a man in a well cut suit. It's always struck me that almost every man scrubs up well in black tie.

@DidoLamenting

Would you tell a Muslim they should feel free to eat pork if they wanted to because its a ridiculous notion that they shouldn't?

What an odd comment. If I knew a Muslim person wanted to eat pork I would probably say something that my understanding of the Islamic and Jewish prohibition on eating pork was related to health and safety reasons which no longer apply so if they want to eat pork why not (but could they make sure it's from free range, organic herds).

I do , I have to say, struggle with the idea of certain animals being treated as unclean. If a an all powerful, loving god made everything it's rather spiteful and vindictive to create sentient, intelligent animals like pigs and dogs to be despised- so yes I may well query that attitude.

Really would you? I'd love to see it!

Animal rights are actually far more important to me than feminism. Women have voices- animals don't.

Also to the posters saying 'my son wears spibk sparkly trainers and rainbow dresses out and about and all we've received is positivity' I'm sorry to be harsh and offensive but so you really think that's what those people are saying when they're sat at home at the dinner table? British culture is very 'polite' and as such human beings are often hypocritical. They might say 'oh how original! Oh how lovely you're letting ethan EXPRESS himself!' but at home it's probably more like 'oh god John. Ethans mum is letting him wear girls clothes! I mean honestly you ought to have seen him in thar pink dress. I mean I know we're meant to be all for it nowadays but I'd NEVER let little Johnny wear stuff like that!' in afraid what you're hearing to your face (most of us know to be "pc") and what people actually think and are saying is probably very different. I feel terribly sorry for these little boys.

Not everyone is as judgemental as you I suspect

@DidoLamenting

Animal rights are actually far more important to me than feminism. Women have voices- animals don't.

Why do you spend so much time on FWR then? Genuinely interested.

You lost me at your last point @Savourysenorita - it's easy to understand why you'd want to protect your son from potential bullying, unfortunately I can't understand why you'd want to protect your son from what people might say out of his earshot.

Perhaps if you can't ever imagine a scenario where your son would ask you to wear a dress then you're not best placed to comment on any of this in the first place? The original question needs a certain amount of imagination to think of where this might be hypothetical possibility.

Is a women less feminine if she wears trousers?

It's just fashion choice.

When my son was 2 1/2, he saw a girl in a light colourful dress with flowers (it was a hot summerday) and said: ''I could have something like that to wear!'' I told him that, yeah, I could buy one for him. Usually only girls wear that, but there is really no good reason why boys don't. He did not like going against the grain and decided against it.

I asked him, again, some time later, but he had made up his mind. I did have a bad conscience, somehow, as I think it is a silly stereotype and why not. But, I felt I had to tell him that this silly norm exists.

I bought him a light, colourful Hawaii shirt & trousers, then, which he liked, but not more than the other stuff.

This thread is like a portal to a different time.

It's as though punk and goth and nose rings never happened.

I'm sorry to be harsh and offensive but so you really think that's what those people are saying when they're sat at home at the dinner table?

Who cares what they say. If there is one thing I want to teach my kid it is that it shouldn't limit itself because of what other people might say. I learned that lesson early on and I've lived a better, fuller life for it.

I think there is a maybe 10 year period between the ages of 5 and 15 when other people care what your child wears and when you can control what your child wears. I am sure Harry Styles does not consult his mother on what he wears.

exactly deepwatersolo

@deepwatersolo

I'm sorry to be harsh and offensive but so you really think that's what those people are saying when they're sat at home at the dinner table?

Who cares what they say. If there is one thing I want to teach my kid it is that it shouldn't limit itself because of what other people might say. I learned that lesson early on and I've lived a better, fuller life for it.

Exactly my sentiments too!

@deepwatersolo

I'm sorry to be harsh and offensive but so you really think that's what those people are saying when they're sat at home at the dinner table?

Who cares what they say. If there is one thing I want to teach my kid it is that it shouldn't limit itself because of what other people might say. I learned that lesson early on and I've lived a better, fuller life for it.

My point being that there's a difference between saying something SHOULD be accepted and the reality of whether it actually is

I wonder how many women on here would be comfortable coming home to their husbands wearing their clothes. I suspect itd make most deeply uncomfortable.

@midgebabe

Not everyone is as judgemental as you I suspect

I'm not a hypocrite. I wouldn't offer my opinions unless asked. I've got a friend who's into all the 'no pink and dresses for my girl - my son has got a dolly's pram and elsa dress for Christmas' I literally make no opinionated comment. If she asked I would have to tell her my perspective. But thankfully she hasn't.

My point being that there's a difference between saying something SHOULD be accepted and the reality of whether it actually is

I know this distinction all too well, having grown up in a small town that had very tight social control. And the reality is: At the end of the day does not matter if something is accepted or not. Those people only hold as much power over you as you let them. And funny enough, five, ten or twenty years down the line, their attitudes may change, because they've seen more and more people transgress some ''sacred norm'', maybe even their kid or grandkid. I've seen it.

So how idiotic would one have to be to live one's life according to other people's nonsensical norms, norms that may be totally irrelevant even to them 5 years from now?