Would you ok your son wearing a dress?

[KristinaJup]

Candace Owens recently tweeted (in response to Harry Styles wearing a dress on a magazine cover) "Bring Back Manly Men".. amongst other things.

Who really cares if a guy wears tutus and glittery dresses? Prince was hot af in his heels and Makeup.

Imo I would have no problem with it at all if my son wanted to put on a skirt but the tweet gained a lot of traction and I saw quite a few memes and lots of fingers pointed at feminism for "ruining men"

If we carry on this way the next thing will be....women should not be wearing trousers! What do you think?

@CatsCantCatchCriminals2

likeamillpond you didn't say, but were you able to dress like him without looking ridiculous?

(I'm guessing you looked great and are too modest to say..)

I did actually. Look great Sorry

In principle I’m all for it, but then again we do care what others think of us, and there will always be those who push against a move away from the norm. I’d like to teach my son not to care about such opinions but equally would be upset about him being targeted so it’s not as straightforward as it should be. Agree that Harry is probably is just maybe doing it to stay provocative and relevant but that’s ok isn’t it? It’s just showbiz.

@CatsCantCatchCriminals2

Certainly neither me or any of the girls in the top set were discouraged or bullied for doing Maths.

That's good to hear, Dido. I am very pleased of course that you were not bullied at school (for that).

Just out of curiosity tho' - was there any bullying at your school and if there was, what sort of things attracted the attention of the bullies?

I was bullied in my 4th year (15/16) by a small group of girls. It wasn't connected to being good at maths particularly or even being clever, but I think the combination of being pretty and clever upset them. That doesn't alter the fact the school encouraged everyone who had the potential to do Maths, to do it.

Bit of an aside but if girls are supposedly discouraged from doing sciences how come the intake to medicine is now more than 50% female and veterinary school even more so? It's been so for a while now. All these science undergraduates can't all have gone to the relatively few single sex schools, which according to some FWR regulars are the only way girls will take up sciences.

@Fishfingersandwichplease

I want to say l would be ok with it but something inside me makes me feel really uncomfortable when my daughter's male friend comes round and puts her dresses on. They are 9. And it might be controversial but l like my man to be manly - seeing him in a dress would be an absolute turn off.

Whats manly?

People should wear things because they like them, not to turn someone else on.

"And it might be controversial but l like my man to be manly - seeing him in a dress would be an absolute turn off."

But we're talking about children. I don't care if my son is manly or not.

Some boyfriends I'd have been ok with wearing a dress. My husband though...nah. I mean, if he wanted to (and it wasn't for weird fetish reasons), fine, but it would look very odd and out of place.

But in his culture, men wear long flowy things that are quite dresslike and that looks fine. Part of the problem with Harry Styles is that the dresses he wore are designed for having boobs and hips in them and they just look rubbish on his body.

He just looks so awkward. It's too self conscious and knowing.

The trouble is when you start saying fine to your D'S about wearing dresses as every day wear when do you start saying no. All these people saying it's ok. Would they be fine with their male partners wearing dresses as every day wear. No. And that's the crunch. You are storing up trouble for the future.

I suggest you read Inferior by Angela Saini

Is that to me or the poster who quoted me?

...and not all women wear dresses; I know a few women (of different shapes and sizes) who really don't like them and never wear them. Which is fine, I hope!

Absolutely. I can remember getting into a similar argument in the workplace many years ago (back in the mid-90s), when management tried to force me to wear a skirt.

My reply was "when you make the men wear them, then yes, I'll consider wearing one, until then I'll be wearing trousers", at which point the conversation was terminated rather abruptly.

@Viviennemary

The trouble is when you start saying fine to your D'S about wearing dresses as every day wear when do you start saying no. All these people saying it's ok. Would they be fine with their male partners wearing dresses as every day wear. No. And that's the crunch. You are storing up trouble for the future.

I dont find men in dresses attractive the same as I don’t find men with blond hair/long hair/beards attractive. I wouldn’t date a man who wore dresses but then I wouldn’t date a man with a beard either!

Dh had one of my maxi dresses on a year ago, he looked really good in it

Cept he had it on backwards

which according to some FWR regulars are the only way girls will take up sciences

I don’t think there are any FWR regulars who say that no girl in a mixed sex school takes up science

Can they really not see (the Candice Owens of this world) that they're perpetuating toxic masculinity?

My DF came home from the Korean War. His DM met him at the train station, when he saw she was wearing trousers he pretended he hadn’t seen her and walked the other way. Sounds crazy now.

@Rainedere

I suggest you read Inferior by Angela Saini

Is that to me or the poster who quoted me?

The person who quoted you Rainedere. But if you haven't already read it, you absolutely should!

Saini goes through all the studies (such as that monkey toy one - in which the female monkeys actually showed no preference) and debunks the myths around them.

the dresses he wore are designed for having boobs and hips in them and they just look rubbish on his body.

Exactly the point I was trying to make.
Even with a load of slap on his face and being fairly nice looking, HS looked like a Man Wearing A Dress with a load of slap on his face.

@RufustheSniggeringReindeer

which according to some FWR regulars are the only way girls will take up sciences

I don’t think there are any FWR regulars who say that no girl in a mixed sex school takes up science

There's a lot of handwringing about how difficult it is in a mixed sex school and how much better it is in a single sex school. The science aspect is always trotted out as the justification for single sex schools. Given the university intake I think it's unlikely all or even the majority of these med and vet undergraduates went to girls schools.

There is a lot of handwringing dido

But I’m afraid i took your post literally when you said that some FWR regulars think that only by going to a single sex school will girls take up science

It wasn't connected to being good at maths particularly or even being clever, but I think the combination of being pretty and clever upset them.

I am very sorry to hear you were bullied at school. That happened to me too. They could see you were pretty. How did they know you were clever? Were you good at maths or science?

@CatsCantCatchCriminals2

likeamillpond you didn't say, but were you able to dress like him without looking ridiculous?

(I'm guessing you looked great and are too modest to say..)

A person, whether shapely or not, female or male can wear trousers and those trousers will likely hang right on and not look ridiculous. A dress on the other hand is less forgiving. On a man, it's extremely unforgiving. And yes, most men will look ridiculous in them.

Funny how in different times and in different cultures people didn't think men looked ridiculous in a dress. Almost as if it's nothing fundamental and just a learnt idea.

@EmilyinWolverhampton

I can't imagine anyone having a problem with it. It honestly shocks me that anyone does. I'm especially surprised to see posters on Feminist Chat having a problem with it, considering FC is usually pretty gender critical.

One of the main reasons we're having to deal with the fallout from all the trans identity politics stuff is due to society becoming far more rigid about people having to adhere to strict gender norms, and the resultant insistence that if you do anything society has coded as being for males/females, it means you actually are male/female and need permanent surgery, non-reversible drug treatments, etc.

I'd far, far rather live in a world where a boy can wear pink or skirts and still be a boy, than a world where boys are told if they like pink it means they're really a girl and need major surgery to 'fix' their bodies, and one where girls are encouraged to like trucks and get dirty if that's what they happen to like, rather than be told if they like trucks and getting dirty it means they're really boys and should be chemically sterilised so they don't develop breasts and start periods.

If society was more accepting of men/boys liking things coded as being "girly" or "feminine" we'd have a hell of a lot less men believing they're entitled to invade female spaces.

Excellent post. I am seriously shocked and a bit disappointed at a lot of the posts on here. This is a supposedly feminist part of MN. The number of posters equating allowing your male child to wear a skirt as abusive is astonishing

I wouldn't for a moment take this thread to be typical or representative of FWR bumbling. Indeed it stands out somewhat. Lots of first time posters here. Welcome to anyone interested in supporting the rights of women and girls.

Reading some of the posts on this thread, it's a wonder that some women aren't still wearing corsets.

Fashion changes. 30-40 years ago Paula Wilcox's tattoo was shocking, now it is mainstream. Up until about 100 years ago it was normal for young boys to wear dresses. Make-up for men has come in and out of fashion. In the grand scale of things, trousers as opposed to are a relatively recent innovation for anyone.

I agree that it's impractical to wear clothes that are designed around an anatomy you don't have, but fashion has never been particularly practical.

sorry, "trousers as opposed to knickerbockers or breeches".

A person, whether shapely or not, female or male can wear trousers and those trousers will likely hang right on and not look ridiculous.
A dress on the other hand is less forgiving.

This is a bizarre statement. There are many types of dresses. Absolutely no reason why men can't wear dresses.