Would you ok your son wearing a dress?

[KristinaJup]

Candace Owens recently tweeted (in response to Harry Styles wearing a dress on a magazine cover) "Bring Back Manly Men".. amongst other things.

Who really cares if a guy wears tutus and glittery dresses? Prince was hot af in his heels and Makeup.

Imo I would have no problem with it at all if my son wanted to put on a skirt but the tweet gained a lot of traction and I saw quite a few memes and lots of fingers pointed at feminism for "ruining men"

If we carry on this way the next thing will be....women should not be wearing trousers! What do you think?

Its never come up with my boys

I don’t think id have an issue with it depending on the age of the child

Young doesnt matter, old enough to understand potential issues doesnt matter but there is (in my mind) a few years were other people would comment and my child would potentially not understand why people were being ‘mean’ or children were bullying them

Actually adults bully as well...I remember being a pescatarian at 10 and the childminders husband going on and on and on at me

Ive always let my children wear what they wanted but this issue hasn’t come up

As an aside i was at a year 6 party, so whats that 10/11? And the children were VERY conscious of who was wearing what to the extent that a child wearing a football kit was ‘picked on’

ncbby- my son wanted to wear wellies on the hottest day of the year. I told him he couldn't and explained why 🙄.

Yes except that's a practical reason, not one we as a society have drawn up and socialised into each other. I got rugby tackled and harrassed and bullied when I was 11ish for being a "dyke" or a "tranny" (not words I would ever use out of that context but solely because I had short hair and presented masculinely). Would have made sense to have tried to convince me to grow my hair out and present femininely, but I wasn't going to give into peer pressure and bullying by anyone.

Teach your kids coping strategies, how to respond to bullying and who to go to if things get bad but there's no practical reason why they shouldn't wear a dress (at least not any one that people don't over look when it comes to girls in dresses).

Tableflowers- absolutely! I feel sorry for those kids because the irony is that quite often, the parents are up in arms about children being free to Express themselves etc. And yet it is the parents who have knowingly or unknowingly pushed their ideals onto their child.

What's actually wrong with letting boys be boys and girls be girls?

I have two girls. Both level headed and strong but also sensitive. Same for my boys! They have a lovely balance of qualities. The boys have not suffered for not being encouraged to wear dresses. But my boys are boys and my girls are girls and that really is OK!

But so are you, the parent who is using your child as an extended statement of your beliefs.

It has been pointed out time and again that we are discussing the idea of a boy who wants/asks to wear a dress.

@ncbby

But why actively put your child in a position where he will targeted by bullies?

Actively putting your child in that position would be saying "Here's your dress, you must wear it". Not saying "Yes since you've asked to wear a dress we can pick out a nice and age appropriate one to wear and talk about important things like self defense". Don't change your own kid's behaviour for other kids potential shitty behaviour, you just need to teach them how to cope and make these assessments themselves.

Exactly. Said better than I could. Thank you.

I need to have it explained to me why a child is not allowed to wear wellies on "the hottest day of the year"....

(I did know that in wellies your feet are freezing on the coldest day of the year.)

I wouldn't have an issue.
It's no good just saying discourage it because they'd be ridiculed - we need to break down the toxic attitudes about why it is "wrong". What does it matter what clothing someone has on (as long as it is clean and comfortable)? How does it personally affect others? Unless someone's clothing was putting them at risk (e.g. machine operator with long loose hair and clothing with frilly bits that could get caught), then it really doesn't matter.
Why do we need 'manly men'? What even is one? If it's a man that wants to have facial hair and wear trousers, fine
If it's a man that is aggressive/violent and dominating, then no, we don't need that kind of man.

Cats- if I really need to explain about wellies on a hot day, then there is no hope...

Neither of my boys have ever shown any interest in wearing dresses but both of them had a preference for everything pink up until they started primary school. They both had plenty of pink t shirts etc and so called "girls" toys.

I personally wouldn't mind at all if they wanted to wear a dress but if I'm honest yes I would try to steer them away from the idea just because of what other people would think/say.
Which reminds me of the time my oldest fell in love with a pair of patent red Mary Janes and it broke my heart to say no and steer him to the mud-coloured boys shoes. I still feel awful about that and it was over 10 years ago!

I often see little boys in princess dresses and think nothing of it. They're just having fun playing dress up.

Absolute load of bollox.
Gender is a social construct, and all things aimed at a particular gender are made by man, not nature. Biology has fuck all to do with a boy playing with a truck or a girl a doll.
Did you know that until fairly recently it was normal to have male toddlers in dresses with longer hair?en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breeching_(boys)considered completely normal and yet would be odd if it happened today.
Did you also know that it's also a fairly modern concept to have girls = pink and boys = blue, and that it used to be the other way around?

I used to agree with social constructionism up until I actually looked at studies where macaque monkeys had gendered toy preference and that even in hunter-gatherer societies these gender behaviours kind of prove that some behaviours are innate to someone's sex such as aggression, interests and sexual behaviour. Its universal in most societies including those who have had no influence from other more egalitarian societies.

No, because I wouldn’t want him to be ridiculed.

@Rainedere

*Absolute load of bollox. Gender is a social construct, and all things aimed at a particular gender are made by man, not nature. Biology has fuck all to do with a boy playing with a truck or a girl a doll. Did you know that until fairly recently it was normal to have male toddlers in dresses with longer hair?en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breeching_(boys)considered completely normal and yet would be odd if it happened today. Did you also know that it's also a fairly modern concept to have girls = pink and boys = blue, and that it used to be the other way around?*

I used to agree with social constructionism up until I actually looked at studies where macaque monkeys had gendered toy preference and that even in hunter-gatherer societies these gender behaviours kind of prove that some behaviours are innate to someone's sex such as aggression, interests and sexual behaviour. Its universal in most societies including those who have had no influence from other more egalitarian societies.

Surely aggression etc is linked to testosterone? I'm not arguing by the way, just genuinely interested! I'm off to google the studies about monkeys and toy preferences.

@Crystalclair

Cats- if I really need to explain about wellies on a hot day, then there is no hope...

Go on give it your best shot.

Could you also say why a child apparently can't be trusted to decide for him or herself that an item of clothing or footwear is unsuitable for whatever reason.

Just say no. Boys don't wear dresses. Same as we don't go out naked.

Just say no. Boys don't wear dresses. Same as we don't go out naked.

How on God's green Earth are these situations even close to being comparable?

Cats- we both know wellies on a hot day make your feet sweat.

Are you also one of those parents who leave the house with an abundance of toys because you cant say 'no' to your child? Or allow them to leave the house on a cold day without appropriate layers, because afterall, it's their choice?

It's ok to parent! And while a dress on a boy doesn't affect them on a practical level, I'd argue that it does affect them on an emotional level when they are bullied or teased at school etc.

You can't control other people's children if they bully. But you can minimize the effect by making sensible choices for them. You know- as the PARENT.

@Viviennemary

Just say no. Boys don't wear dresses. Same as we don't go out naked.

This is how you wind up convincing boys who do want to wear dresses that they are, in fact, girls.

My little girl used to love party dresses, her little brother wore them too because the wanted to be like her. They both learnt that they are ridiculous clothes to wear if you want to climb trees, ride motorbikes etc, my little boy did come to this realisation much quicker than his sister.
Clothes are clothes. As long as I don't get moaned at that they are too cold/warm/uncomfortable I couldn't care less what either of my kids wear

It's ok to parent! And while a dress on a boy doesn't affect them on a practical level, I'd argue that it does affect them on an emotional level when they are bullied or teased at school etc.

Right, except ginger children get bullied, gay kids get bullied and nerdy kids get bullied as a few examples but nobody is saying "John, you need to become a heterosexual brunette who can't pass his GCSEs or we're scared you'll be bullied". I've also recognised a few posters saying this kind of stuff, and they're also the ones who are talking about "kids these days having no resilence" - how do you expect them to develop resilience if you enforce that they conform?

(as a footnote I give those examples because I had a moderately recent school life and these were the children I remember getting bullied, though I too fit into some of those categories)

I wouldn't let him know it but yes I probably would feel uncomfortable at least until I got used to it. I've been brainwashed by society, by what I grew up around. I would worry that other people would judge him and it would make me feel concerned in that respect. I hope I would get used to it though.

Mine is very young, it's easy to say now I wouldn't care but I got teased a lot at school for being weird and it really messed me up. I'd hate him to feel the same. Equally I'd hate him to have to pretend to be someone he's not.

The thing with Harry Styles is, he looks shit in a dress. Prince looked great, everything he wore suited him. Harry Styles just looks like a bloke in a dress. No female model would get away with looking that shit in a fashion magazine.

@Viviennemary

Just say no. Boys don't wear dresses. Same as we don't go out naked.

Hogwash! Those situations are in no way comparable

No, I would not.

Oh, dear fucking God!
NO ONE ON HERE IS FORCING THEIR SONS INTO DRESSES.
NO ONE ON HERE IS INSISTING THAT THEIR SONS BE NON CONFORMING.
THEY ARE NOT FORCING AN AGENDA.

Sorry for the caps but people seem to be having a trouble grasping that allowing your son to wear a dress is not the same as forcing them into one. Saying "yes, alright" to a little boy wanting to wear a dress is not forcing a political agenda.

I think it's responsible, if your son were to ask, to tell him how other people might react, tell him he might get teased at school. I wouldn't tell him that it was "unnatural" because he'd probably ask why and, in absence of a discovery of a genetic mutation that encourages boys to wear dresses, there isn't really an answer to that.
And, if he still wanted to wear a dress, I'd say alright

Well said @TeenyTinyDustinHoffman