Would you ok your son wearing a dress?

[KristinaJup]

Candace Owens recently tweeted (in response to Harry Styles wearing a dress on a magazine cover) "Bring Back Manly Men".. amongst other things.

Who really cares if a guy wears tutus and glittery dresses? Prince was hot af in his heels and Makeup.

Imo I would have no problem with it at all if my son wanted to put on a skirt but the tweet gained a lot of traction and I saw quite a few memes and lots of fingers pointed at feminism for "ruining men"

If we carry on this way the next thing will be....women should not be wearing trousers! What do you think?

I wouldn't let my DS play out in the dress Harry was wearing, its probably a £30k dress and would be wrecked in no time, he would put a foot through all that tulle and froth in seconds as would I

Certainly neither me or any of the girls in the top set were discouraged or bullied for doing Maths.

That's good to hear, Dido. I am very pleased of course that you were not bullied at school (for that).

Just out of curiosity tho' - was there any bullying at your school and if there was, what sort of things attracted the attention of the bullies?

What depressing responses on this thread.

I've always found MN a place that embraces non-conformity, particularly with regards to so-called "gendered" clothing.

I hope the people who say they wouldn't let their son wear a dress because it's "embarrassing" "weird" or "they'll get bullied" recognise that they are the ones helping to create an "unsafe" environment for non-conforming children.

If your son wants to wear a dress and you repress, repress, repress, you risk othering him and fostering shame. He may ball that up and internalise it and one day you could see that repression emerge as something else.

Far more important is teaching your son he can wear a dress, but that doesn't stop him being him.

I’m not sure about this one. I wouldn’t expect my ds to want to wear a turban or a kilt or any other dress that’s not the norm for his culture so I would expect him not to wear a dress either.

If it was my eldest adult child he really would have to take a lawnmower to his legs though

But not if he is wearing shorts or swimming trunks?

I've always loved a good prance, me.

So it's not victim blaming telling a boy not to wear a dress to avoid bullying but it would be victim blaming if the length of a girls skirt was mentioned during a rape trial

Women will get raped irregardless of what they wear.

Peoples mind set with the dress is that a child who woulndt have been picked on, is now bullied because they wore a dress.

So that's why it's seen as different.

I don't necessarily agree with that as I think the kids who get bullied will be bullied no matter what they do.

What are 02 tubes?

@iguanadonna

(We are not in UK, in case that wasn't obvious. No school uniform. In fact I don't think teachers are allowed to comment on appearance.)

I'd live there.

I've always found MN a place that embraces non-conformity, particularly with regards to so-called "gendered" clothing.

So have I. I don't find this thread particularly representative of the normal thrust of conversation.

I agree. Weird.

This thread has attracted a lot of new people that I've never noticed on FWR before.

Welcome!

Are the posters who are saying that they'd never let their lad wear a dress the ones who would believe that it's okay for that to happen if the child is a "trans" child?

That's a feeling I'm getting..

(I put that word in inverted commas because I myself wouldn't call any child that.)

And while some may say that in order to change people's negative views we must stand for what's right- don't use your child who is not emotionally intelligent enough or experienced and resilient enough as your prop in order to do so!

Yes this.
It reminds me of political activists who parade their banner carrying children at marches or religious cults who knock on doors with them spreading the word

It isn't fair to push your own political or fringe cultural ideas into them or use them to prove a point. Children like to fit in, be like their school friends. They are conformist

Cats, I'm baffled, It's all over the place.

@cheeseismydownfall

DS(13) and I were talking about his school uniform recently. He's cross because for some reason ties are mandatory for boys but optional for girls and he was (quite rightly) calling that out. We then got on to the subject of skirts and he felt that if girls have the option yo wear a skirt, then boys should too (after all, it might well be more comfortable in summer).

I asked him if he personally would choose to wear a skirt and said absolutely, definitely not - he would have the absolute piss ripped out of him. I then asked if it would be easier for a boy to identify as a trans girl and then wear a skirt - he said yes, that would be much more acceptable.

So there we have it - it is easier for a boy to reinvent himself entirely as a girl than it is for a boy to wear an gender non conforming item of clothing

This is just so sad. The people on here saying ' it isn't natural for a boy to wear a dress/skirt' and ' I'd be embarrassed if my son did this' sound a lot like homophobes do when talking about homosexuality.

Why exactly is it embarrassing for a boy to wear a skirt? Could it be because a skirt is associated with being a woman and obviously having any feminine traits whatsoever is absolutely terrible in a man

Also maybe we should ask ourselves why skirts are historically more associated with women. I don't know the answer to this but am interested to know.

Isn't wearing skirts/dresses more comfortable (and hygienic?) especially in hot conditions?

Medusa- no one is saying that children deserves to be bullied! But why actively put your child in a position where he will targeted by bullies? Yes the bullies are in the wrong, massively so. But so are you, the parent who is using your child as an extended statement of your beliefs.

When kids are old enough and resilient enough then they can make their choice and be able to handle any negative criticism much more effectively.

As a parent it really is ok to say no to your child sometimes!

@MedusasBadHairDay

All the outrage about "you are going to get your child bullied" seems really short sighted to me. I mean firstly it's teaching kids that being different means they deserve bullying- and therefore that it's ok to bully others who look different. You are raising (or at the very least raising kids that will enable) bullies by teaching them this is a "social norm" that absolutely cannot be transgressed.

Secondly it's an arbitrary social norm that only exists because people like you make it exist, there is no logical reason for it. Why does it matter if boys wear dresses? Saying because it's a social norm is circular logic, give me a real reason.

Here's the thing, DS isn't a dress wearing but, but he does like pink. That made me nervous at first because I know how cruel kids can be (and I know how many parents will instil this daft idea that colours are gendered), but actually his classmates were fine with it.

This idea we have to force the kids to conform to avoid them being the target of bullies, actually I think a more useful skill is teaching them that bullies don't get a damn say. A lot kids unfortunately don't get a choice to conform and avoid the attention of bullies, I didn't, my kids won't, because our family are mostly really short people, so my son is likely to get hassle for this. So I'm teaching my kids that bullies are stupid, and that treating others badly because they don't conform is stupid. And that not conforming doesn't mean bullying is guaranteed.

Don’t be ridiculous and don’t twist peoples words to fit you’re own agenda.

I mean firstly it's teaching kids that being different means they deserve bullying- and therefore that it's ok to bully others who look different. You are raising (or at the very least raising kids that will enable) bullies by teaching them this is a "social norm" that absolutely cannot be transgressed

Parents can’t stop other children bullying their child, so the only control they have is try to eliminate possible scenarios that they may get bullied.

I would go mad if I going out my DC was bullying another child, irrespective of the reason, but not all parents would reprimanded their DC if they were bullying other kids. They simply wouldn’t care.

Because I can’t be sure these parents would teach their DC to be non judgemental across the board, my choice would be to not use my own DC as a guinea pig to see whether they would get bullied or not.

Kids can be cruel so why throw them in to the lions den?! Because it’s fashionable eh?....hmm might be fine in the local village where 10 kids are in the same year group, all the parents are friends and all is well wealthy middle class England suburbia - all insulated and protected, but try sending a boy in a dress to a school with over 1000 pupils and smack bang in the middle of a big city, where there’s no protection. I bet it wouldn’t be quite the pleasant experience.

I agree with the poster up thread, who says it’s like a trend, parents jumping on the bandwagon to be different, and ‘cool’. A bit like becoming a vegan. You hear them shout loudly in the restaurant ‘Do you have a vegan menu?’ I cringe!

You do what suits you, stop judging others for the choices they make!!!

But why actively put your child in a position where he will targeted by bullies?

Actively putting your child in that position would be saying "Here's your dress, you must wear it". Not saying "Yes since you've asked to wear a dress we can pick out a nice and age appropriate one to wear and talk about important things like self defense". Don't change your own kid's behaviour for other kids potential shitty behaviour, you just need to teach them how to cope and make these assessments themselves.

I'm really surprised by the responses here, I would be fine with my sons wearing skirts. It was the norm when my dad was a child for boys to wear dresses - easier nappy changes for a start but I guess this was for young children rather than men.
My 3 year old ds (youngest) wears leggings as his preference, if he asks for a skirt then that's fine.
Eldest ds (18) doesn't own a dress but I can't see myself or dh caring one jot if he did.

@Flaxmeadow

And while some may say that in order to change people's negative views we must stand for what's right- don't use your child who is not emotionally intelligent enough or experienced and resilient enough as your prop in order to do so!

Yes this.
It reminds me of political activists who parade their banner carrying children at marches or religious cults who knock on doors with them spreading the word

It isn't fair to push your own political or fringe cultural ideas into them or use them to prove a point. Children like to fit in, be like their school friends. They are conformist

This this and this

@Crystalclair

Medusa- no one is saying that children deserves to be bullied! But why actively put your child in a position where he will targeted by bullies? Yes the bullies are in the wrong, massively so. But so are you, the parent who is using your child as an extended statement of your beliefs.

When kids are old enough and resilient enough then they can make their choice and be able to handle any negative criticism much more effectively.

As a parent it really is ok to say no to your child sometimes!

Great post. When they’re old enough they can do what they want. It’s when parents push their own agendas on to their kids...

I wouldn't have a problem if my (non-existent) son wore a dress, but it would make me wonder if he would turn out to be gay, as I know these things are biological and acting gender atypical at such a young age is an indicator of sexual orientation. I would still love an encourage him to be himself regardless of what he wore though

Absolute load of bollox.
Gender is a social construct, and all things aimed at a particular gender are made by man, not nature. Biology has fuck all to do with a boy playing with a truck or a girl a doll.
Did you know that until fairly recently it was normal to have male toddlers in dresses with longer hair? en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breeching_(boys) considered completely normal and yet would be odd if it happened today.
Did you also know that it's also a fairly modern concept to have girls = pink and boys = blue, and that it used to be the other way around?

ncbby- my son wanted to wear wellies on the hottest day of the year. I told him he couldn't and explained why 🙄.

Just because your son asks to wear a dress, doesn't mean you need to say yes.

We are their parents and it's our responsibility to guide and protect them. Not let them do whatever they want at all costs. Especially if it would make them a target of bullying.