Would you ok your son wearing a dress?

[KristinaJup]

Candace Owens recently tweeted (in response to Harry Styles wearing a dress on a magazine cover) "Bring Back Manly Men".. amongst other things.

Who really cares if a guy wears tutus and glittery dresses? Prince was hot af in his heels and Makeup.

Imo I would have no problem with it at all if my son wanted to put on a skirt but the tweet gained a lot of traction and I saw quite a few memes and lots of fingers pointed at feminism for "ruining men"

If we carry on this way the next thing will be....women should not be wearing trousers! What do you think?

@Crystalclair

Sorry, but if you allow your son to wear a dress outside of the home, you are literally setting him up for misery. He will very likely be targeted. No, this is not victim blaming- in an ideal world we could all wear what we want. But it's not an ideal world is it?

And while some may say that in order to change people's negative views we must stand for what's right- don't use your child who is not emotionally intelligent enough or experienced and resilient enough as your prop in order to do so!

I think there are many parents these days who just choose to be controversial to be seen as edgy and current. Like only buying their son pink, tutu's, dollies. And their daughter's dressed in typical boys style clothes playing with trucks etc.

For the record, my kids could play with whatever they wanted and dress how THEY chose at home. But I didn't have to buy my boys barbies and pink dresses just to seem pc.

Exactly.

@yourhairiswinterfire

I'd have no problem with it at all. I think everyone should be free to wear whatever the hell they like.

I think it's great and actually refreshing that Harry Styles wears dresses just because he likes them and wants to wear them. Nothing at all wrong it.

It's the people that go on the attack that are the problem. They're the ones that lead kids/teens to think they need to conform to one set of stereotypes, and if they don't there must be something wrong with them.

Harry Styles doesn't wear dresses because he likes them, he wears dresses because they will get him talked about. And therefore he will stay famous.

Harry Styles doesn't wear dresses because he likes them, he wears dresses because they will get him talked about. And therefore he will stay famous.

The two aren't necessarily mutually exclusive

ASatisfyingThump

I think there is a massive difference between a 4-year old dressing up and a 12 year old wearing a dress outside. Who cares what a young kid wears. The OP is asking about older children x

Little kids like to role play and dress up, and I don't think that is all that big a deal.

Most kids then go through a period of being rigid about social norms, then older kids sensitive to them but are able to understand they aren't absolutes.

IME older kids, usually teens, who want to flout them are usually doing it to be edgy, or do gender reversal type things, or get attention. Which is what I'd say Harry Styles is about. He might really like dresses, and I don't think it's likely sexual, but it's probably in part about the contrast of masculinity and femininity. And there is a reason this is something you see especially with rock stars or stage costumes. I suspect Prince wasn't watching tv wearing heels, or even going down to the 7-11. It's a performance.

If my son wanted to wear a woman's dress, he can, but I'd be inclined to think it wasn't due to some overwhelming urge to wear a dress so much as a desire to make some kind of a statement.

@berrygirlie

Harry Styles doesn't wear dresses because he likes them, he wears dresses because they will get him talked about. And therefore he will stay famous.

The two aren't necessarily mutually exclusive

I think he probably does like dresses- he just picks some truly awful ones. The idea that he's breaking down gender roles doesn't I think have much traction though. It's the shock value , the being different which is important. If dresses became the norm he'd do something else.

That's potentially true, Dido. I suppose there is always a bit of a competition as to who can be the next legend amongst celebrities, and maybe wearing dresses is a part of that to a certain extent.

I think the grey dress in Vogue was very unattractive (but I don't like the square neckline ruched thing as it reminds me of the dresses I wore when I was a little girl). I don't dislike the one I've attached though - it looks a little matronly but it's my favourite out of the ones he's worn.

I just think - what is he trying to do there? The dress doesn't do much for him, and he doesn't do anything for it.

It wouldn’t bother me I don’t think. One of ds’s school friends (he’s 6) wears princess dresses to birthday parties and genuinely no one bats an eyelid. Obviously as he gets older it may get more attention (although we haven’t been to a class birthday party this year for obvious reasons so he may not wear them any more)

I know it isn’t the societal norm, but I think it should be that men (and women) can wear whatever the hell they like without it being a big deal. And certainly without it meaning they are trans or whatever else.

That’s what gets me. If either of my dss said they wanted to wear a dress to school, the only reason I’d discourage it would be because I know that the school will have had Mermaids swoop in and he’d come home having been convinced he’s a girl

Just reading the posts after I went to bed, I’m genuinely surprised by the number of posters who are pro-patriarchy and in the boys can do this and girls can do that camp.

@Eminybob If either of my dss said they wanted to wear a dress to school, the only reason I’d discourage it would be because I know that the school will have had Mermaids swoop in and he’d come home having been convinced he’s a girl

*
This is one of my fears. My ds does wear a mix of 'boys and girls' clothes but he's not wanting to be a girl. Being only 7 he doesn't know it's medically possible. The school so far have been very supportive of his choices and there's no sign of mermaids or the like although I have read horror stories that they operate without the parents knowledge?

I. Woulndt mind my son wearing a dress if he could pull it off and look cool. But I don't think Harry looked cool. He looked like he was trying too hard.

People like Bowie, Prince, boy George, even Marilyn Mason pull off gender bending styles and look good with it. Harry did not.

But I think Candive Owens issue was not just with Harry in his dress, but actually with the gradual erosion of manly men and a demonisation of anything masculine. Not all aspect of masculinity are bad and you can be manly without being a sex criminal, bully or aggressor. So we shouldn't make men go against their natural traits or feel bad for being traditional men. But there is room in this world for all sorts of male personalities, we don't need to shun femenine men either.

All the outrage about "you are going to get your child bullied" seems really short sighted to me. I mean firstly it's teaching kids that being different means they deserve bullying- and therefore that it's ok to bully others who look different. You are raising (or at the very least raising kids that will enable) bullies by teaching them this is a "social norm" that absolutely cannot be transgressed.

Secondly it's an arbitrary social norm that only exists because people like you make it exist, there is no logical reason for it. Why does it matter if boys wear dresses? Saying because it's a social norm is circular logic, give me a real reason.

Here's the thing, DS isn't a dress wearing but, but he does like pink. That made me nervous at first because I know how cruel kids can be (and I know how many parents will instil this daft idea that colours are gendered), but actually his classmates were fine with it.

This idea we have to force the kids to conform to avoid them being the target of bullies, actually I think a more useful skill is teaching them that bullies don't get a damn say. A lot kids unfortunately don't get a choice to conform and avoid the attention of bullies, I didn't, my kids won't, because our family are mostly really short people, so my son is likely to get hassle for this. So I'm teaching my kids that bullies are stupid, and that treating others badly because they don't conform is stupid. And that not conforming doesn't mean bullying is guaranteed.

My 14 year old son wears makeup to school. Very flamboyant eyes. He's just had his ears pierced with sparkly earrings too. Came home with them done the other day. He does it partly to attention-seek, partly because it's fun to be beautiful, partly to annoy the macho-subculture boys...

he points out 'if I thought i was a girl, I wouldn't be breaking gender norms, I'd be reinforcing them', so I guess that's alright.

I did dissuade him from wearing a skirt earlier in the autumn, though. Persuaded him he didn't have the right top to bring the outfit together. Old white tshirt not right. Not quite sure why this was step too far for me. Possibly because the tshirt WAS wrong. Not Bowie, more bloke who should have moved out of his mother's basement. Maybe I agree with pp who feel that important that the aesthetics are right. Ds usually has great retro outfits (he goes to charity shops with friends) which go well with his whole look and I'm happier with that.

Very odd for me, because I've never had any interest in makeup and little in clothes. Have certainly never felt confident or fabulous like him. Children can be quite surprising, but it's fun to see what they get up to.

I wouldn't have a problem if my (non-existent) son wore a dress, but it would make me wonder if he would turn out to be gay, as I know these things are biological and acting gender atypical at such a young age is an indicator of sexual orientation. I would still love an encourage him to be himself regardless of what he wore though.

I'm a bit more relaxed about my DD (4) when she acts more masculine or likes "boys" toys. I'm going to encourage her to be a bit more masculine in the ways she behaves and the hobbies or careers she chooses, as she grows up seeing as men reap more rewards (societal, financial etc) for being masculine.

(We are not in UK, in case that wasn't obvious. No school uniform. In fact I don't think teachers are allowed to comment on appearance.)

Like how action figures aren’t dolls?!

No

Thanks medusa, I think you have something there with the bullying argument

Perhaps you could work your wisdom on why I also feel that people saying things along the lines of it doesn't suit them or doesn't look cool is also off?i think it's because what looks good is cultural also so could be a disguise for sexism?

Interesting that action figures are called figures and not dolls isn't it!

I wouldn't have a problem if my (non-existent) son wore a dress, but it would make me wonder if he would turn out to be gay, as I know these things are biological and acting gender atypical at such a young age is an indicator of sexual orientation.

No it isn’t.

I think all the people worried about bully's need to remember that people are usually bullied due to their personality, perceived weakness and/or reaction to ridicule. Not because of style choice or appearance.

Thats why not all fat kids or all ugly kids get bullied.

A cool kid with confidence could wear what they want and not get bullied. Taken the piss out of maybe. But not bullied. A really cool kid could potentially turn it into a trend. Which is what I think Harry is trying and failing to do.

I doubt Harry Styles picked his own clothes for that Vogue shoot the same way I doubt anyone in Vogue picks their own clothes. I'm sure he was a part of the concept but not the specific dresses.

So it's not victim blaming telling a boy not to wear a dress to avoid bullying but it would be victim blaming if the length of a girls skirt was mentioned during a rape trial ?

@jellyfrizz

Like how action figures aren’t dolls?!

Oops, that went wrong. I was trying to quote reply to the response to midgebabe saying:

“I think when people say "but it's not a dress " they mean " it's the type of dress that they understand is acceptable as menswear"