West Yorkshire again

[Imnobody4]

West Yorkshire has 'country's highest number of recorded child marriages', report by Leeds honour abuse charity Karma Nirvana claimsMore than a third of alleged child marriages in the UK were reported to police in West Yorkshire, according to a local charity.

www.yorkshireeveningpost.co.uk/news/crime/west-yorkshire-has-countrys-highest-number-recorded-child-marriages-report-leeds-honour-abuse-charity-karma-nirvana-claims-3060390

It's about time the gov took action on banning marriage under 18. This has been called for since about 2012.

The last I read the thread it wasn't generalised, couldn't further posts be deleted if it has deteriorated?
No. Because Islam can not be criticised.

Its terrifying the way women and girls voices are being shut down.

I would like to know why these cases are not making the main news on BBC, ITV and Channel 4?

That's very disappointing the other thread was shut down.

Thank you for the recommendation to watch Hometown on BBC3 which explores related issues in Huddersfield. It is very sobering and I will be contacting the BBC to thank them for airing it and suggest they cover this topic further.

Kirklees thread was removed due to ‘generalisations'

Do they mean generalisations about male criminals in West Yorkshire. It's all a bit vague.

Maybe we could ask for more info on the site stuff board, as to why the Kirklees thread was deleted?

I've just asked the question on Site Stuff. I was reading the thread at the point it was deleted and I don't understand what comments on that thread crossed the line.

I think the deletion of individual comments, if Mumsnet had genuine concerns, would have been more appropriate rather than the whole conversation being shut down.

I'd say I'm surprised it was deleted, but I'm not. In West Yorkshire we know that the abuse of women and girls is considered unimportant. You've only got to look at the recent Leeds Council vote to maintain the "managed zone" in Holbeck, with the intentionally biased report supporting it, to understand that. It's no surprise we're shut down from discussing our real experiences in wider spaces as well.

Late to the thread, but I used to live in the Kirklees area.

My dc's nanny from when they were tiny had had an arranged marriage at 16 to a first cousin she'd never previously met. Her elder sister was moving to the U.K. to marry his older brother, & at the last minute dnanny got, as she put it, 'thrown in as a BOGOF offer'.

It wasn't a happy marriage. When she tried to leave, she had nowhere to go & no family support - her parents were still in her home country & couldn't help - not that they wanted to, they made it clear that she was disgracing the family. Her dsis was sympathetic but couldn't help as she couldn't go against her own dh who was firmly Team Brother, & her ILs/aunt & uncle also put huge pressure on her to 'make a go of things'.

Last I heard, she was quietly racking up qualifications at evening school & getting her ducks in a row to leave when her dc were grown....

Also, my youngest is deaf, so as a family we were involved with a local deaf kids' society. Every other family was from a cultural background where generations of cousin marriages were common. Many of the dc had other significant additional needs.

So yeah, I'd say it's a bit of a problem in WY, sadly. Not sure what could be done - the deaf kids' organisation was trying to raise awareness without pissing off the very parents who used them, which was a delicate business, to put it mildly.

WYP don’t really care about girls and young women, unless you are a very special kind of woman

The Queef this is nothing to do with Islam. Any issues are culture not religious

@Hoppinggreen

The Queef this is nothing to do with Islam. Any issues are culture not religious

It has everything to do with Islam just as the church had everything to do with their abuse scandal. Islam is what the abusers hide behind. The absolute refusal to criticise any part of Islam allows the abuse to be hidden. Just like the absolute authority of the church did.

I would list my direct criticism of the parts of Islam I believe allow the abuse of women and children but we know it will be deleted.
Yet I can say the vow of celibacy a Catholic priest takes is bizarre and the closed order of Catholicism is the perfect home for paedophiles to flourish so the ideology needs updating.

Handsoffstrikesagain

"Because no one wants to be accused of being racist andy. It really is a shit show."

Sadly you are correct, everyone treading on eggshells and ignoring the elephant in the room. It reminds me of when Jess Phillips tried to play down the Cologne, New Year sexual assaults, comparing it to a night out in Birmingham.

www.dailymail.co.uk/video/news/video-1247944/BBC-Jess-Phillips-MP-compares-Cologne-attacks-Birmigham.html

I disagree
Priests who abused children used The Catholic Church to hide behind, I don’t see how Muslim men can use Islam in a similar way.
I live in Kirklees and in the previous mass prosecution of this type the ringleader wasn’t actually Muslim at all.
Nowhere in Islam is abuse of children allowed any more than flying planes into buildings is. These men may be protected by their communities but that is definitely cultural not religious.

I agree with making the minimum age of marriage 18. Not only to stop the kind of forced marriages (in fact or in all but name), but now children are expected to be in education or training until at least 18, even more reason to do so.

99% Cultural I would guess at Hopping maybe even 99.5%.
But the 1% belief that non believers are worth less combined with the 99% madness of their societal misogyny is creating the perfect storm.
If anyone criticises their conviction that these girls are fair victims it's immediately declared that is an insult to Islam.
Ergo racist.
We should be allowed to criticise or amend anything that we know now is wrong.

No offence meant in my post, I'm trying to explain a hot potato without causing any deletions.

Hoppinggreen I live in Kirklees

I'm assuming not in a deprived urban area though, which is what most of Kirklees is and where people, from all backgrounds, are desperate to discuss the problems in their own working class neighbourhoods openly and honestly.

Sorry Flaxmeadow I don’t understand your post, genuinely I am it being obtuse.
Are you saying that I live in a “posh” bit of Kirklees ( relative term) so I dont know what I am talking about? And where is this open and honest discussion in the working class neighbourhoods? In fact what working class neighbourhoods do you mean exactly? It’s all pretty mixed in most areas, even the leafier villages,which may be mostly white but are mixed in terms of income

TheQueef yes I do agree that non believers are often seen as less worthy, it’s the case in most religions unfortunately.
Some of the most generous, kind, moral people I know are Muslims and are horrified that anyone would link their religion to this sort of behaviour but there certainly is pressure to “stick together”

Sorry Flaxmeadow I don’t understand your post, genuinely I am it being obtuse.
Are you saying that I live in a “posh” bit of Kirklees ( relative term) so I dont know what I am talking about? And where is this open and honest discussion in the working class neighbourhoods? In fact what working class neighbourhoods do you mean exactly? It’s all pretty mixed in most areas, even the leafier villages,which may be mostly white but are mixed in terms of income

In working class deprived areas, which most of West Yorkshire generally is, people, that is people from all ethnic backgrounds, seem to be able to discuss these matters in a more frank honest way and without the restrictions of polite middle class overly politically correct boundaries on discourse.

The policing of working class language and conversation usually doesn't come from working class people, of all ethnic backgrounds, themselves. I fear sometimes conversations are being shut down by class privilege

Do you live in a multi cultural deprived urban part of Kirklees?

i think I know what mumsnet meant but if I pick out comments it could sound like I'm criticising the poster and I'm in general agreement that it needs talking about so I don't want to do that.

I was dithering about posting on the Kirklees thread but NAMALT never goes down well so I didn't think NAKILT or NABPALT would either.

I think it is hard to talk about the topic without sounding racist or even Kirkleesophobic.

I've not seen the TV version of Hometown but have listened to the podcast. This episode called The Shame (About drugs but applicable to grooming) is good for understanding why there aren't more voices from the community speaking up and also how easy it is for that community to feel like they're always under attack and their good deeds don't get in the news:

www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/p08hgjx2

I think the contribution from the imam (Ilias?) and the non-sectarian attitude of the journalist Mobeen Azhar give some hope that there will be more criticism from within the community so less likely to be dismissed as racism.

I'd be really interested in seeing some statistics on cousin marriage and ages of first marriage for women. It feels like it's changing a bit to me but it's hard to know without data. Cedrtainly the young women I work with don't seem to feel any pressure to marry early but I think they would feel pressure if they wanted to marry a non-Muslim.

That perfect storm is exacerbated by woke people in public services whose response to finding out a girl in care has been groomed and is being raped regularly is to say 'sex work is work', because that is what they were taught in uni.

It's still happening. If we could sit in on social work degrees around the country, how often do you think they have exited women and survivors of grooming coming in to talk to them about the reality?

It's all 'stop the stigma' talks, isn't it?

Such as where flaxmeadow?
No idea where these working class deprived multicultural areas are in my part of Kirklees. I can think of a lot of places that tick 2 of those boxes but not 3. And while I would love to believe that this “working class multicultural frank discussion” goes on I really doubt it.
The more deprived areas here are most certainly NOT culturally diverse.

Tesselate that podcast you recommend is brilliant. Azhar explains the community influence at each step he's excellent.