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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Urgent action for those in Scotland

382 replies

SusanSmithFWS · 05/12/2020 18:58

The amazing Johann Lamont has put in an amendment to the forensic medical services bill. This is a really important piece of legislation which seeks to make the process easier for rape victims and we support it. We are concerned, however, that although the women who testified that access to a female examiner was the most important concern, the bill still refers to the gender - instead of sex - of the examiner.

Sex, unlike gender, is defined in the Equality Act and there is provision for recruitment under schedule 9. We believe that a small change will ensure that there is no ambiguity.

We would urge anyone from Scotland to please write to all eight of their MSPs and ask them to support the motion.

As Susan Dalgety reported in the Scotsman:
Her amendment may be only six words long – “for the word ‘gender’ substitute ‘sex’” – but it gets to the heart of the current debate about who counts as a woman.

“Women should be able to choose the sex of the person who conducts the investigation,” Johann told me last night. “This is a key test for the Parliament, which is committed to rooting action in the understanding of experience. Women courageously and powerfully spoke up so that others might fare better than them.

“The amendment is tiny but would be a huge step in listening to survivors. The committee was convinced. The Parliament should be too.”

Six words can make a world of difference.

www.scotsman.com/news/opinion/columnists/transgender-debate-msps-must-stand-womens-sex-based-rights-key-vote-bill-help-rape-victims-susan-dalgety-3057640

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ArabellaScott · 09/12/2020 12:01

So what he's saying is that the only way to ensure more women medical examiners is to change the definition of 'women' to include men?

I see.

GrouchyKiwi · 09/12/2020 12:23

I've only just seen this, so I hope I am not too late. But I have written to my regional MSPs (no SNP amongst them, though two Greens), and my SNP MSP, so we'll see.

Thanks to PP for recommending Write To Them. What a useful resource!

thereplycamefromanchorage · 09/12/2020 13:03

Got another reply from another Conservative list MSP, again saying they will support the amendment.

No surprise about Patrick Harvie's reply, I like your response, terryleather.

bluebling · 09/12/2020 13:09

If the effect of voting for the amendment is "non-existent" why would it hurt to vote for it?

My thoughts too. I received exactly the same reply from Mark Ruskell

allmywhat · 09/12/2020 13:10

I don't understand the red herring.

I would expect that not changing "gender" to "sex" could have extremely bad knock-on effects on the availability of female examiners. Won't it mean that they have to apply "gender" instead of "sex" as a criterion in recruitment?

How many forensic medical examiners are there in Scotland? If they recruit even one TW for a role that needs a woman they're making the whole situation for victims worse, not better.

Soupsetbythis · 09/12/2020 13:17

I've just received exactly the same email from someone working for Mark Ruskell - another Scottish Green - so it's obviously their set response. I'm totally gutted by these people - I looked into joining the Greens recently, as I'm politically homeless - and it's only this issue that has made me decide not to support them. I responded too:

"I have looked at this issue in detail, and have a good understanding of it.

Could I please ask you to read this short document, which clearly explains the issue:

murrayblackburnmackenzie.org/2020/12/07/sex-and-gender-in-the-forensic-medical-services-bill/

The point here is that a woman who has been raped should have the right to request to be examined by a female, where a choice is available.

As currently drafted, the bill will allow her to request to see someone of a particular gender. The Scottish government has made it very clear that its interpretation of the female gender includes males who identify as women. This means that a woman who has just been raped (this may be just a few hours after the rape), could request to be examined by a woman, and be required to accept an intimate medical examination by a male who identifies as a woman. Despite a female medical examiner being available.

If the words"sex" and "gender" mean the same thing - why are the government insisting on using "gender" and not "sex"? Why are they putting the feelings of a small number of males who identify as women and who would, worryingly, like to have the job of carrying out intimate examinations of traumatised women, before the very strong feelings of women who have just been raped? How can this advance the purpose of the legislation - to encourage women who have been sexually assaulted to seek medical treatment and to provide evidence for a possible criminal prosecution, and as soon after the attack as possible?

Please represent your constituents - 50% of whom are women who are at risk of rape - and do what needs to be done to advance the purpose of this legislation, rather than voting on the basis of ideology. Please do not let us down on this. I have teenage daughters - I am absolutely shocked by what is happening here. Why are Scotland's girls and women being sacrificed like this?"

Soupsetbythis · 09/12/2020 13:19

This is helpful:

murrayblackburnmackenzie.org/2020/12/07/sex-and-gender-in-the-forensic-medical-services-bill/

I'm just so upset by this. It really shows that there are absolutely no limits to how women and young girls will be sacrificed. I feel so hopeless about Scotland's future, and I hate being a mother of girls at the moment.

terryleather · 09/12/2020 14:21

@thereplycamefromanchorage

Got another reply from another Conservative list MSP, again saying they will support the amendment.

No surprise about Patrick Harvie's reply, I like your response, terryleather.

I wish I'd been brave enough to actually reply to him thereply, I just meant that was my reply from PH - not very clear from my post I now realise! Posting from my phone is always a mistake...Grin

Reading PH's reply again or indeed reading anything from a genderist, I find myself mystified as to what is actually being said as words such as "women" don't have the usual meaning.

Every time the word woman is used in that reply I'm hearing and any male who says he's one. Which is of course why changing "gender" to "sex" in the Bill matters and of course is why the genderists pretend that it doesn't.

As for the rest of the patronising pish and this little dig
" ...appears to be motivated by views on other issues" (because of course PH and his ilk don't have an agenda, they just happen to be on the side of the angels and are therefore always right about everything)...Hmm

Truly he is the fudmeister.

Sexnotgender · 09/12/2020 14:39

I’ve emailed mine. Got a positive reply from a Tory and labour MSP. Got the boiler plate misogyny from my green one. Cunt.

terryleather · 09/12/2020 14:50

At the risk of being deleted I'm going post this stunning artwork once again...

Urgent action for those in Scotland
Glitterypants · 09/12/2020 15:04

I've had two replies from Labour MSPs saying they will be supporting Johann Lamont.

Unfortunately one of my MSPs is Mark Ruskell so anticipating his BS response any minute.

As for Rape Crisis Scotland I'm absolutely appalled at their response. I could cry. Such a betrayal for absolutely no reason.

Iamhangingin · 09/12/2020 15:38

Hi - I emailed round my MSP (I live in Fife) most got back to me with positive responses. I dose seem very common sense. I wrote my own email putting into words the importance of the language used.

ArabellaScott · 09/12/2020 16:08

Bloody hell, why am I the only one not getting a response?! Does my email smell or something?

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 09/12/2020 16:10

@ArabellaScott

Bloody hell, why am I the only one not getting a response?! Does my email smell or something?
Hopefully it's because they are overwhelmed by heartfelt emails from angry women Grin
Cailleachian · 09/12/2020 16:18

This also has the effect of marginalising female non-binary people.

The consultation was clear that people wished to select the sex of their examiner. By replacing sex with gender, they are discriminating against female people who are not cis gendered.

The bill as it is currently written is transphobic.

Sexnotgender · 09/12/2020 16:19

@Iamhangingin

Hi - I emailed round my MSP (I live in Fife) most got back to me with positive responses. I dose seem very common sense. I wrote my own email putting into words the importance of the language used.
Hello fellow fifer!
Glitterypants · 09/12/2020 16:26

Fife is a positive hotbed of gender critical activism it would appear Grin

WaltzingBetty · 09/12/2020 16:51

Another standard Scottish green response here.
Disappointing

SassenachsWhaHae · 09/12/2020 17:43

@Glitterypants

Fife is a positive hotbed of gender critical activism it would appear Grin
That's cos Fifers don't take any shit.
GrouchyKiwi · 09/12/2020 18:20

I've had two replies from Conservative MSPs, stating that they will be supporting the amendment, as expected.

Galvantula · 09/12/2020 19:42

Hi from the hotbed 😂

I've had both Labour MSPs send personally written looking replies and 2/4 Tories have sent the c&p reply that they seem to be using. All in support though.

0% Lib Dems and Green replies 🤔

Hello... Willie Rennie... Hello?

theskyispink · 09/12/2020 19:46

Got the boilerplate response from Mr. Green Head, who I have to say was very quick to demonstrate his self-righteousness, given I only emailed late last night.

Nothing yet from the others (Glasgow).

Daughterofmabel · 09/12/2020 20:06

Nothing from any of mine yet. Cross.

ArabellaScott · 09/12/2020 20:12

Me neither, Daughter. In a proper huff. I usually get at least a blustering, offhand response from the main one (one of his minions, at least).

ArabellaScott · 09/12/2020 20:12

@Glitterypants

Fife is a positive hotbed of gender critical activism it would appear Grin
I am feeling uncharacteristically inclined to move East.
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