Keira

[YouNoob]

Live tweets from Belstaffie here:

mobile.twitter.com/Belstaffie/status/1333716720176033793

Sue Evans says children will need to go through court to access puberty blockers.

Press reports are being interpreted as no change from before in tra twitter - freddy thingy for example taking it as no change and all is well. I think the judgement will be a bit more complex than either she won, or nothing changes (tho if defence want to appeal they obviously think things will change otherwise). I think earlier press headlines have not understood the issue.

Well don't keira & Mrs A for bringing this to the fore.
Lots of brave people have been important to this but I just want to add well done Michelle Moore who I don't think is involved directly in this, but she put her career on the line to talk about the issue and without that I don't think there would have been the groundswell of support & crowd funding.

I'm loving the language used in the summary - sex (not gender), no 'assigned at birth'

"Gender dysphoria is a condition where persons experience distress because of a mismatch between their perceived identity and their natal sex, that is, their sex at birth. Such persons have a strong desire to live according to their perceived identity rather than their natal sex. "

I'm so happy - well done Keira and your team, this is an amazing outcome and I sincerely hope it's not overturned on appeal by the transcultists.

@Winesalot, yes, exactly. Dont pause referrals, change the way you bloody treat these kids!

Mermaids' attitude is very reassuring, I'd be more concerned if they were happy.

MagicSummer, this should help: womansplaceuk.org/2020/11/30/keira-bell-there-was-nothing-wrong-with-my-body/

There is a hell of a lot of "We find it surprising" in that judgment re the Tavi.

Judge speak for - FML

Yes you're absolutely right. Michelle is another Shero in this.

How can the TRAs see this as a win?

Honestly it's baffling.

twitter.com/skynewsbreak/status/1333722916131921921?s=21

It doesn't really matter if the TRAs spin this as a win.

The point is that children under 16 won't be routinely given blockers anymore.

Which means most young girls will be able to grow out of their dysphoria with their bodies intact.

Hopefully those on blockers now will have to stop taking them (and then I guess we'll find out exactly how harmless and reversible they are )

Wow from part of the court papers - the defendant didn’t have any clinical evidence why so many girls were being treated

31. Apart from the age distribution, there are other aspects of the patient group which are relevant to this case. The number of referrals to GIDS has increased very significantly in recent years. In 2009, 97 children and young people were referred. In 2018 that number was 2519.
32. Further, in 2011 the gender split was roughly 50/50 between natal girls and boys. However, in 2019 the split had changed so that 76 per cent of referrals were natal females. That change in the proportion of natal girls to boys is reflected in the statistics from the Netherlands (Brik et al “Trajectories of Adolescents Treated with Gonadotropin-Releasing Hormone Analogues for Gender Dysphoria” 2018). The defendant did not put forward any clinical explanation as to why there had been this significant change in the patient group over a relatively short time.
33. It is recorded in the GIDS Service Specification and the wider literature that a significant proportion of those presenting with GD have a diagnosis of Autistic Spectrum Disorder (ASD). The Service Specification says: “There seems to be a higher prevalence of autistic spectrum disorder (ASD) conditions in clinically referred, gender dysphoric adolescents than in the general adolescent population. Holt, Skagerberg & Dunsford (2014) found that 13.3% of referrals to the service in 2012 mentioned comorbid ASD (although this is likely to be an underestimate). This compares with 9.4% in the Dutch service; whereas in the Finnish service, 26% of adolescents were diagnosed to be on the autism spectrum (Kaltiala-Heino

I read the ‘life-saving’ aspect to that tweet and equally 🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄

So let’s ‘save the life’ of a gender dysphoric 13 year old only to have that child feel completely helpless and suicidal 10 years later when they realise they have no breasts or womb and are unable to have children of their own.

Puberty is an extremely confusing time. Many of us felt out of control of our bodies and wished we could remove the breasts that stopped us from running and jumping. I would have totally rid myself of my periods given the ability. But I was a CHILD. I was unable to grasp what the future would hold and the woman I would become. I was very lucky that I was unable to make life changing decisions as that age. As it is I have a multitude of piercing holes and a dodgy tattoo I now of course regret, but when my mother warned me I would regret it down the line I said ‘nooooooooooo’ 🤦🏻‍♀️

Tavistock has proposed a pause in referrals

But this would be counter productive. They should certainly continue to take on patients, however, the focus should be on intensive mental health therapy and getting rid of the bullshit theory that any other than transition is conversion therapy. Mental heath treatment and working to accept your body until you can make the decision as an adult.

Exactly. Referrals should continue, and possibly be ramped up so there isn't the excessive waiting time. However, the first course of action is in-depth mental health support to understand why the child or teenager is experiencing such distress. Most children will grow out of it with the right support. Those who continue to experience issues can move to the next stage once they reach adulthood.

I'm hoping that the Scottish government are following this too.

Cos we are in a right pickle.

This is amazing news. Well done Keira and others who supported this.

I just hope this translates to children (and adults) who identify as trans getting actual safe and helpful support and treatment, and not just affirmation, being filled with drugs, and subject to surgery.

Yep. The first headline on BBC Cambridgeshire was:
‘Gender reassignment: NHS loses puberty blockers legal case‘

Now it’s been changed to:
‘Gender reassignment: High Court rules on puberty blockers for under-16s‘

Katie Montgomerie is crowing about it on twitter but somebody has just posted the overall judgement and I’d say that’s a win.

twitter.com/scotssong/status/1333731678339166209?s=20

Menstrualcycledisplayteam

Agreed. I don't know if you will find many who would disagree on this thread. Unfortunately, there needs to be an immediate push on closing down that Spanish based, Hong Kong owned clinic and any like it to stop prescriptions until better treatment paths become clear. Until then, more investment in intensive and non-biased mental health.

What about testosterone? I know a 16 yr old waiting for testosterone.
Does that mean she's already on puberty blockers?

Is testosterone to be treated in the same category as puberty blockers?

Look what GIDS will now have to demonstrate in order to proceed with puberty blockers in children!

The court held that in order for a child to be competent to give valid consent the child would have to understand, retain and weigh the following information:
(i) the immediate consequences of the treatment in physical and psychological terms;
(ii) the fact that the vast majority of patients taking puberty blocking drugs proceed to taking cross-sex hormones and are, therefore, a pathway to much greater medical interventions;

(iii) the relationship between taking cross-sex hormones and subsequent surgery, with the implications of such surgery;
(iv) the fact that cross-sex hormones may well lead to a loss of fertility;
(v) the impact of cross-sex hormones on sexual function;
(vi) the impact that taking this step on this treatment pathway may have on future and life-long relationships;
(vii) the unknown physical consequences of taking puberty blocking drugs; and
(viii) the fact that the evidence base for this treatment is as yet highly uncertain

@PenguindreamsofDraco

There is a hell of a lot of "We find it surprising" in that judgment re the Tavi.

Judge speak for - FML

I noticed that too

I also thought it interesting that the judgement noted the reason for use of puberty blockers was not clear eg is it a "pause" or is it to allow for a more pleasing aesthetic with cross sex hormones (massively paraphrasing)

Very clear from the judgement though that this is a win. Presumption is that U16s cannot consent.

The court considered that it was highly unlikely that a child aged 13 or under would be competent to give consent to the administration of puberty blockers. It was also doubtful that a child aged 14 or 15 could understand and weigh the long-term risks and consequences of the administration of puberty blocking drugs.

In respect of young persons aged 16 and over, the legal position is that there is a statutory presumption that they have the ability to consent to medical treatment. Given the long-term consequences of the clinical interventions at issue in this case, and given that the treatment is as yet innovative and experimental, the court recognised that clinicians may well regard these as cases where the authorisation of the court should be sought before starting treatment with puberty blocking drugs.

This is huge. I am sorry for the children who have been lied to and told that PBs are the best way of coping with their discomfort at their growing bodies. But it's better that they rage and experience mental anguish than spend a lifetime on drugs

[quote OhHolyJesus]How can the TRAs see this as a win?

Honestly it's baffling.

twitter.com/skynewsbreak/status/1333722916131921921?s=21[/quote]
Because they only exist in an echo chamber. They cannot hear anything said that doesn’t agree with their ideology.

It's interesting to see how the TRAs are spinning the decision on twitter:

"But this is just saying that doctors should apply the normal consent requirements for children!"

That's exactly the point. The "normal consent requirements" haven't been applied for who knows how many years.

Thank you Keira and Mrs A. And your legal team and every single person who gave their support to this case whether that was with words or deeds or donations.