La Leche League will support males (of the male sex) who wish to breastfeed.

[ExLLLeader]

I picked this up on a recent Facebook post and could not quite believe it so made the following complaint/query and it is true. I was a La Leche League Leader for many years and am very upset to see how the organisation has lost its focus on the Mother and baby.

Complaint To The Board of Directors/Trustees

Dear Board members,

I was alarmed to see a post yesterday on the LLLGB Facebook page. The post in celebrating Transgender awareness week. The post links to the this page which states

LLLGB supports everyone who wants to breastfeed or chestfeed in reaching their goals. We do not discriminate based on sex, gender or gender identity.

And
Trans men, trans women and non-binary individuals may choose to breastfeed or chestfeed their babies.

And
Trans women can use a protocol similar to adoptive and other non-gestational mothers and stimulate their milk supply: it is called the Newman-Goldfarb protocol.

I have two issues I wish to complain about and they relate to the idea that males/Transwomen can breastfeed.

LLLGB should not be promoting the idea that males can induce lactation to feed a baby. There is no evidence to say this is safe, only an anecdotal example of a case where a doctor in the US enabled this to happen using off label drugs. The focus of the paper is mainly on the desires of the male bodied person and there is little interest in the impact on the baby and indeed the mother. www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5779241/ . I would hope you have also considered the fetishisation of breastfeeding which does not only apply to men watching women, males lactating is also a paraphilia.

Why would LLLGB of all organisations choose not to discriminate on the basis of sex as it is perfectly entitled to under the equalities act? By saying these two statements there is nothing to stop a male wishing to come to women only meetings. Even I presume, before the baby is born. Im not sure if you would require that the male considered themselves to be a woman by performing gender stereotypes or not. (The male in the study had no surgery so still had a functioning penis.) Does this entitle a male who has breastfed to apply for Leadership?

Yours Sincerely
(ExLLLeader)

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Dear (ExLLLeader)
Thank you for taking the time to contact us with your concerns.
Your first concern is that there may be safety concerns relating to inducing lactation via drugs. The protocol used by Trans men is very similar to that used by women wishing to induce lactation. This treatment has an established treatment history. As lay breastfeeding counsellors, LLL Leaders role is to provide up to date and accurate information which individuals can use to inform their discussion with their healthcare provider.
Our groups have discretion to consider the needs of their communities when they decide who can attend. Some will by default be women only, however our support is and must always be open to anyone who needs support and information to breastfeed (which some individuals call chestfeeding). This would mean that a group would need to find a way to balance the needs of members who needed a single sex space, with the needs of an individual who needed chestfeeding support.
Eligibility for La Leche League Leadership is set by LLL International and can be found here: www.llli.org/get-involved/prerequisites/
As an organisation with a robust safeguarding culture, if we had concerns about an individual's motivation for seeking breastfeeding support we would take appropriate action to protect families and babies.
Best wishes (LLL Trustee)
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Dear (LLL Trustee)
Thank you for your reply, I have copied my complaint below as I was raising concerns about the male sex – i.e. Transwomen and breastfeeding and you have answered as if my concern is about female sexed i.e. trans men.

Best wishes (ExLLLeader)
_
Dear (ExLLLeader)
My apologies - I used the wrong word there. I should have said the protocol used by transwomen wishing to induce lactation is very similar to that used by women. The rest of my reply is intended to answer your points as raised.
(LLL Trustee)
___
Dear (LLL Trustee)
I am surprised to hear this. Would you therefor support a ‘Cis” man to breastfeed and provide the nutrients for a newborn baby?
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Not had an answer

But why would you steal support from women who have given birth and are genuinely struggling to breastfeed with all the equipment provided, why would you take the care and support of la leche advisors and channel them into an attention seeking impasse, which is entirely about the ego of the transwoman,
And not about mum and baby.

Why not concentrate on being the best parent you can in other ways and by other feeding methods. It seems to me this is nothing to do with the baby parent relationship but just about attention seeking and validation.

And yet you did not actually read the post did you?

This was evidenced in the single case study jj that only proved a type of lactation was possible and was completely focused on the transwoman’s ability NOT the child’s needs.

I don't feel this about transmen who breastfeed though. I think they are brave enough to see past all this shit and just think about their baby and not how other people view them, for a short time.

So many people claim to be experts on trans issues and yet appear to know so little.

Actually, we are very keen to discuss the child’s needs here. AND the mother who has breastfeeding issues.

If you have some studies and statistics from the trans point of view. Please post them. You know that we will read the links.

Otherwise, like many other threads, this one is discussing the needs of females (including transmen) and children. In this case, infants that deserve to have their needs put before any one else’s. Hence why women seek support for breastfeeding, which can be fucking hard from my own personal experience. But crack on discussing your needs on this thread.

It implies you buy into the Idea that non trans = cis.

Er, because that's true?

Er - no it isn’t.

How is it not?

I always thought LLL were quite elitist, so surprised they would let biological men who cannot physically breastfeed a baby in, yet berated me when I dared to ask about combi feeding because obviously only losers don't fully BF. A absolutely agree in supporting transmen (aka biological women) in BFing if needed, although there is probably additional emotional support needed that differs there; but it's ridiculous.

Otherwise, like many other threads, this one is discussing the needs of females (including transmen) and children. In this case, infants that deserve to have their needs put before any one else’s. Hence why women seek support for breastfeeding, which can be fucking hard from my own personal experience

Absolutely this. This thread is like a mini demonstration of what women seeking support from LLL are going to come up against unless LLL manage to stick to their mission statement of supporting breastfeeding mothers and babies with what is best for both of them.

Can anyone other than a woman breast feed? How ridiculous pandering to this bullshit. What a waste of time

Actually, we are very keen to discuss the child’s needs here. AND the mother who has breastfeeding issues

I only breast fed my first dd fir 3 or 4 weeks. Expressed fir a couple of months after , but, from the little I remember ( shes a teen now ) the big thing they suggested at the breast feeding clinic was lots of skin on skin contact. Right when you want to hide the flab under the baggiest t shirts you own , you are sharing baths akd spending ages with not top on.

Only someone who is in it for themselves when the baby has the mother right there who is missing vital time she will never get back, and who things its all about just feeding the baby , would do this.

It has to be damaging for the mother and the baby. We already know that even babies adopted at birth into the most loving and supportive families still suffer the effects of separation etc

It matters. It really does. Why would you damage your baby this way doing something so unnecessary and selfish. The baby could have 2 loving parents raising a happy healthy child via a bottle or with the mother breastfeeding, there's no need to do this ...

Can men and transwomen who take the drugs to induce a little bit of fluid from their nipples develop mastitis?

Can they also develop thrush? If so does it give you the deep, sharp pains in milk ducts like it does in women?

Do men who 'breastfeed' get up in the night with full 'breasts' and are unable to sleep due to the pain of being full of milk? Or wake up soaked because of a leaks?

Quite aside from that has anyone in support of this, maybe even LLL themselves, have some long term, peer review, not insane, in depth and data supported medical studies that it doesn't harm or have any negative medical, emotional or developmental effects on the babies?

No?

This thread is like a mini demonstration of what women seeking support from LLL are going to come up against unless LLL manage to stick to their mission statement of supporting breastfeeding mothers and babies with what is best for both of them.

Agree. Organisations like LLL need to be standing firm now and having these arguments now. Otherwise it will get harder and harder to push back against the nonsense.

Them supporting transmen makes sense. Them supporting male people trying to make themselves lactate via a load of drugs and such, is not right. I am surprised, I had support from this group when trying to breastfeed and they appeared to be all about the science and such. And all about whats best fr the baby. I cannot see that 'male breastmilk' produced by cocktails of drugs, will be safe, let alone nutritional for babies. This is shocking.

Trans women's breasts are anatomically pretty much identical to other women's breasts and have pretty much the same hormone levels.

Ant there we have it. Honestly, I don't know why we indulge this self absorbed bullshit.

@bigbadbedknobs

Just to say that adoptive mothers can induce lactation, without any hormones, they might not bring in a full supply, but they can often produce some; this can include mothers who have never given birth as well as those who have given birth and have breastfed before., women can relactate after not initiating breastfeeding at birth. So grandmothers can already bring in a milk supply, but it takes time and is quite a task to do so and maintain it. Women's bodies are amazing

women can relactate after not initiating breastfeeding at birth.

Yeah I went down this path. Unfortunately I was unable to produce anymore than about 4oz per day, with multiple pumpings including through the night, but there was some.

I do not understand why adoptive mothers lactating, is mixed in with males trying to do it. Adoptive mothers are women. The female body is designed for this. The male body is NOT. That this needs to be said is a sorry state of affairs really, but totally usual in todays topsy turvy world of nonsense, that centres the wants of male p[people before everything, even the safety of babies it seems

I hope this thread survives, another couple on this topic have gone phhhhht due to straying into Unapproved Wrongthink on Disallowed Subjects.

Supporting transmen makes absolute sense and I imagine they have plenty of additional needs that women don't experience that need addressing. From the responses that LLL have given to OP it doesn't look like they've thought too deeply about that which is a worry.

Arguing (falsely) that transwomen can safely breastfeed babies (that women have given birth to) is a heluva hill to die on. I'd urge LLL to refocus on their mission and put their efforts into supporting the women and babies who need them. By all means reference women and trans men (since they can give birth). But fgs steer clear of this safeguarding nightmare.

@Winesalot

And does this apply to any women on medication, or just trans women?

And you know that breastfeeding women are usually incredibly careful of what medications they are taking while breastfeeding, right?

And you know that the birth mothers hormones are already exposed to the baby they have just given birth to, right?

And you know that breastfeeding women are usually incredibly careful of what medications they are taking while breastfeeding, right?

I was on a lot of domperidone for simulating lactation (failed ultimately though) but, I wasn't even able to take cold medication while trying as it would be bad for baby. Hell was even advised against taking paracetamol at one point!

My sister who breastfed for a year had a whole year of avoiding so so much medication/foods etc.

Does not surprise me in the slightest that activists care more about the male person, than the baby that this type of crap affects. This 'transwomen, LIKE ALL OTHER WOMEN' nonsense really gets under my skin.

BFing is a sensitive topic for me, due to the relatation attempts..so I think I will leave this thread after this message, as I know I will blow with the usual expected 'but you took some drugs, so thats the exact same as a man doing it' and such

Honestly, I don't know why we indulge this self absorbed bullshit

Neither do I, though I guess we should have seen it coming with the whole girl dick / lady cock business.

Trans women are women.

All breasts are breasts.

All breastmilk is milk.

Fetishising the feeding of newborn babies, babies who cannot consent and suffer from a lack of nutrition from not having their mother's milk, at a time they need it most and are at their most defenceless...and to see LLL and others support this, including mothers who have done it and understand it?

I never thought I'd see it. I really wish I hadn't.

Not a fetish? Damn right it is.
www.thestranger.com/queer-issue-2017/2017/06/21/25225867/my-first-time-breastfeeding-my-daughter

vulva

Hell was even advised against taking paracetamol at one point! me too.

Vulva I'm sorry it was so tough

For the same reason any other woman would

Most women I know who choose to breastfeed, including myself, do so because it’s nutritionally best for baby, speeds up mother’s recovery from childbirth, lowers risk of breast and ovarian cancer, comforts baby to be at the breast after being inside mother’s body for 9 months, easing baby’s transition into the world.

The list goes on but they are nearly all biologically specific reasons many women choose to put themselves through the painful and exhausting work of establishing breastfeeding. Are you telling me these are the same reasons that a transwoman who has not gestated the baby would choose to breastfeed?

I don’t know a single woman who would choose to breastfeed if the sole benefit was that it made her feel more feminine.