La Leche League will support males (of the male sex) who wish to breastfeed.

[ExLLLeader]

I picked this up on a recent Facebook post and could not quite believe it so made the following complaint/query and it is true. I was a La Leche League Leader for many years and am very upset to see how the organisation has lost its focus on the Mother and baby.

Complaint To The Board of Directors/Trustees

Dear Board members,

I was alarmed to see a post yesterday on the LLLGB Facebook page. The post in celebrating Transgender awareness week. The post links to the this page which states

LLLGB supports everyone who wants to breastfeed or chestfeed in reaching their goals. We do not discriminate based on sex, gender or gender identity.

And
Trans men, trans women and non-binary individuals may choose to breastfeed or chestfeed their babies.

And
Trans women can use a protocol similar to adoptive and other non-gestational mothers and stimulate their milk supply: it is called the Newman-Goldfarb protocol.

I have two issues I wish to complain about and they relate to the idea that males/Transwomen can breastfeed.

LLLGB should not be promoting the idea that males can induce lactation to feed a baby. There is no evidence to say this is safe, only an anecdotal example of a case where a doctor in the US enabled this to happen using off label drugs. The focus of the paper is mainly on the desires of the male bodied person and there is little interest in the impact on the baby and indeed the mother. www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5779241/ . I would hope you have also considered the fetishisation of breastfeeding which does not only apply to men watching women, males lactating is also a paraphilia.

Why would LLLGB of all organisations choose not to discriminate on the basis of sex as it is perfectly entitled to under the equalities act? By saying these two statements there is nothing to stop a male wishing to come to women only meetings. Even I presume, before the baby is born. Im not sure if you would require that the male considered themselves to be a woman by performing gender stereotypes or not. (The male in the study had no surgery so still had a functioning penis.) Does this entitle a male who has breastfed to apply for Leadership?

Yours Sincerely
(ExLLLeader)

--------

Dear (ExLLLeader)
Thank you for taking the time to contact us with your concerns.
Your first concern is that there may be safety concerns relating to inducing lactation via drugs. The protocol used by Trans men is very similar to that used by women wishing to induce lactation. This treatment has an established treatment history. As lay breastfeeding counsellors, LLL Leaders role is to provide up to date and accurate information which individuals can use to inform their discussion with their healthcare provider.
Our groups have discretion to consider the needs of their communities when they decide who can attend. Some will by default be women only, however our support is and must always be open to anyone who needs support and information to breastfeed (which some individuals call chestfeeding). This would mean that a group would need to find a way to balance the needs of members who needed a single sex space, with the needs of an individual who needed chestfeeding support.
Eligibility for La Leche League Leadership is set by LLL International and can be found here: www.llli.org/get-involved/prerequisites/
As an organisation with a robust safeguarding culture, if we had concerns about an individual's motivation for seeking breastfeeding support we would take appropriate action to protect families and babies.
Best wishes (LLL Trustee)
-----
Dear (LLL Trustee)
Thank you for your reply, I have copied my complaint below as I was raising concerns about the male sex – i.e. Transwomen and breastfeeding and you have answered as if my concern is about female sexed i.e. trans men.

Best wishes (ExLLLeader)
_
Dear (ExLLLeader)
My apologies - I used the wrong word there. I should have said the protocol used by transwomen wishing to induce lactation is very similar to that used by women. The rest of my reply is intended to answer your points as raised.
(LLL Trustee)
___
Dear (LLL Trustee)
I am surprised to hear this. Would you therefor support a ‘Cis” man to breastfeed and provide the nutrients for a newborn baby?
-------
Not had an answer

My breastfeeding days are long since finished, but I have fond memories of my local LLL group. A wonderful, women centred environment where I discovered a new (to me) kind of feminism rooted in celebration of the power of the female body to nurture and nourish a baby. If I recall correctly men were not allowed, I certainly don't remember any there. It was so empowering.

Sad times.

That sounds lovely Curious

Thank you for that post, @CharlieParley.

The reason the vast vast vast majority of women breastfeed is because they have carried a baby, given birth, and the baby needs feeding and breast milk is good for them.

Your post really resonated Gerbil. I had countless bouts of mastitis, split nipples, dealt with babies dropping in weight, silent reflux and so many other sagas during my time breastfeeding. The ONLY thing that kept me going each time was the belief that what I was doing was the best thing for my child. I do not believe that any transwoman with a desire to breastfeed could possibly say that that was their motivation.

My son has a trans man friend. I feel a great deal of sympathy for what he's gone through transitioning from female to male. I imagine this publicity from the organisation is if a trans man gets pregnant.

What about "gender is a social construct?" Now you all realise that years of this feminist/post colonial/Marxist theory actually is a THREAT to you.

Your first concern is that there may be safety concerns relating to inducing lactation via drugs. The protocol used by Trans men is very similar to that used by women wishing to induce lactation. This treatment has an established treatment history.

No, they need to answer the one about Transwomen. A baby being fed a liquid that may be full of testosterone suppressants and artificial female hormones has no established treatment history. Over and above the artificial medication to produce the liquid in the first place.

If not, why are they not cautioning against babies ingesting a liquid which contains;
(i) testosterone suppressants
(ii) artificial female hormones
(iii) on top of the drugs to induce the breast liquid in the first place?

If @LLL are cautioning against babies being given all that, then the nurturing of healthy babies may still be their mission and they may be doing all they can to protect babies against ingesting harmful substances.

@MsSafina

My son has a trans man friend. I feel a great deal of sympathy for what he's gone through transitioning from female to male. I imagine this publicity from the organisation is if a trans man gets pregnant.

No, it isn't.

We're responding to this statement shared by OP:

Trans women can use a protocol similar to adoptive and other non-gestational mothers and stimulate their milk supply: it is called the Newman-Goldfarb protocol.*

I think the LLL GB position is lamentable. They are falling in line with LLL USA whose language is ‘inclusive’ ie supports breastfeeding across all ‘genders’. There is nothing wrong, and everything right, with supporting mothers to breastfeed. Mothers = women. There is a physiological and psychological and emotional connection between a mother and her baby which breastfeeding enhances and supports. Adoptive mothers (or mothers who may not have breasts as a result of mastectomy) can reflect this, too, using whatever means to bring in a milk supply and doing the skin to skin stuff and whatever else they need to make the most of their wonderful female biology.

Trans identified people if they are without their own breasts cannot breastfeed. The case studies indicating they can are false. They are lies. This does not mean producing something liquid out of the nipple doesn’t happen. It may do. It is not human milk and it cannot be produced in any quantity sufficient to nurture a child.

People with a lactation kink or fetish already try to call on breastfeeding supporters to talk about it - the women who answer these calls should not ever be expected to put aside their own discomfort to satisfy these people’s needs to express a fetish. They should be permitted to have a boundary and curtail these requests.

These demands for bf support also happen online. We’ve seen it here - bogus calls for help with bf when there is not, and will never be, a baby. It also happens on FB. It happens on Reddit. Often, they’re spotted - sometimes they’re actually indulged by women who think they’re being kind. At least I think that’s what they’re feeling.

Opening up to people who are not mothers or expecting to be mothers brings up problems. Note: I am not talking about fathers who want to support their partners’ bf. It makes mothers feel uncomfortable. It diverts precious resources. It misuses and exploits goodwill.

I can envisage groups for pregnant and bf women being visited by someone who says a surrogate-born baby is on the way, and the plan is to breastfeed....please can I have the support of other mothers while I prepare with pumping/drugs and please validate me, aren’t I great? There may, of course, be no baby on the horizon at all. It’s just a fantasy.

The issue about giving the baby drugs will not be the issue for groups or non medical bf supporters (though it is a real concern), as they cannot be expected to advise on that.

But the issue of being used, undermined, made to feel very uncomfortable and even violated, and ruining things for genuine, would-be breastfeeding mothers is very real.

I dread to think other bf support organisations could be drawn into this shit.

@MsSafina

What about "gender is a social construct?" Now you all realise that years of this feminist/post colonial/Marxist theory actually is a THREAT to you.

I think you're confused. We are saying that women are oppressed by their biology. See posts in this thread and numerous others. Gender identity will never identify women out of biological oppression. Think harder.

I don't have fond memories of breastfeeding. It was back in the day and the NHS were pushing powdered milk in bottles. Cow & Gate to be precise. Breast feeding mums on the ward were treated like shit. Bottle fed mums had their babies taken away and got a good night's rest. One of the bottle feeding Mums told me: I don't want to be like a cow and had the nurses full support. That's the seventies for you.

@MsSafina.....this is not about transmen. Read the thread properly.

Transmen have breasts (sometimes). They are physiologically capable of breastfeeding however they identify. Of course they should be able to access bf support to do so happily and for as long as they want.

I don't need to think harder. You are now saying biology counts when before you said it doesn't.

And @MsSafina, what are your seventies memories of your own experience to do with the topic?

"Do women who have adopted a baby induce breast feeding? I have never heard about this."

I have heard of it. There was a Woman's hour interview with a woman who had done it.

I do feel sympathy with this trans man who is a friend of my son as I know him. I still think it must be hell to do something so drastic. He is losing his hair which men accept as balding.

Gender is a social construct.

Sex is a basic fact.

I'm not seeing any disharmony between the two?

I'm sorry that was how you were treated- my mum had the same. Baby whisked away was the norm.

See my earlier comments about breastfeeding being a complex divisive issue, earlier in the thread.

I have zero problems with a non binary female or trans man getting BF support after having a baby. Less than zero, if that's possible.

If biology has never counted why did feminists fight for paid mat leave etc?

How old is this friend of your son's @MsSafina ?

Has this person any hopes for a biological family and has this person had a mastectomy?

Also great posts upthread Charlie and tiktok.

Trans women's breasts are anatomically pretty much identical to other women's breasts and have pretty much the same hormone levels.

This needs repeating: the above is a lie. It's a falsehood. It's fake news.

Males with surgically created breasts do not have female breasts. Trans woman cannot feed babies with their breasts. I'm sure many educators at La Leche know this, too...but for some reason they have chosen to be complicit in this lie.

I’m sorry...can I just check?
This is trans women (ie biological males) taking drugs to create some sort of...discharge? That is then fed to a baby?
Have I got this right?

As far as I know he wants to be a man and is happy to be so. I've asked my son if his "Lady parts" are intact but he says he's never asked. As far as I can see, the trans men are no threat to us. The fact that trans women are attacked by men and therefore all female spaces have to be turned into unisex spaces so males have even more access to attack females is beyond belief. That's my opinion.

Also trans woman doesn't necessarily mean hormones surgery etc.

If a male person says they're a woman then they are from that point. TWAW. at that moment their breast tissue to transforms to be the exact same as a female with fully functional breasts.

I mean it's a miracle tbh.