La Leche League will support males (of the male sex) who wish to breastfeed.

[ExLLLeader]

I picked this up on a recent Facebook post and could not quite believe it so made the following complaint/query and it is true. I was a La Leche League Leader for many years and am very upset to see how the organisation has lost its focus on the Mother and baby.

Complaint To The Board of Directors/Trustees

Dear Board members,

I was alarmed to see a post yesterday on the LLLGB Facebook page. The post in celebrating Transgender awareness week. The post links to the this page which states

LLLGB supports everyone who wants to breastfeed or chestfeed in reaching their goals. We do not discriminate based on sex, gender or gender identity.

And
Trans men, trans women and non-binary individuals may choose to breastfeed or chestfeed their babies.

And
Trans women can use a protocol similar to adoptive and other non-gestational mothers and stimulate their milk supply: it is called the Newman-Goldfarb protocol.

I have two issues I wish to complain about and they relate to the idea that males/Transwomen can breastfeed.

LLLGB should not be promoting the idea that males can induce lactation to feed a baby. There is no evidence to say this is safe, only an anecdotal example of a case where a doctor in the US enabled this to happen using off label drugs. The focus of the paper is mainly on the desires of the male bodied person and there is little interest in the impact on the baby and indeed the mother. www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5779241/ . I would hope you have also considered the fetishisation of breastfeeding which does not only apply to men watching women, males lactating is also a paraphilia.

Why would LLLGB of all organisations choose not to discriminate on the basis of sex as it is perfectly entitled to under the equalities act? By saying these two statements there is nothing to stop a male wishing to come to women only meetings. Even I presume, before the baby is born. Im not sure if you would require that the male considered themselves to be a woman by performing gender stereotypes or not. (The male in the study had no surgery so still had a functioning penis.) Does this entitle a male who has breastfed to apply for Leadership?

Yours Sincerely
(ExLLLeader)

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Dear (ExLLLeader)
Thank you for taking the time to contact us with your concerns.
Your first concern is that there may be safety concerns relating to inducing lactation via drugs. The protocol used by Trans men is very similar to that used by women wishing to induce lactation. This treatment has an established treatment history. As lay breastfeeding counsellors, LLL Leaders role is to provide up to date and accurate information which individuals can use to inform their discussion with their healthcare provider.
Our groups have discretion to consider the needs of their communities when they decide who can attend. Some will by default be women only, however our support is and must always be open to anyone who needs support and information to breastfeed (which some individuals call chestfeeding). This would mean that a group would need to find a way to balance the needs of members who needed a single sex space, with the needs of an individual who needed chestfeeding support.
Eligibility for La Leche League Leadership is set by LLL International and can be found here: www.llli.org/get-involved/prerequisites/
As an organisation with a robust safeguarding culture, if we had concerns about an individual's motivation for seeking breastfeeding support we would take appropriate action to protect families and babies.
Best wishes (LLL Trustee)
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Dear (LLL Trustee)
Thank you for your reply, I have copied my complaint below as I was raising concerns about the male sex – i.e. Transwomen and breastfeeding and you have answered as if my concern is about female sexed i.e. trans men.

Best wishes (ExLLLeader)
_
Dear (ExLLLeader)
My apologies - I used the wrong word there. I should have said the protocol used by transwomen wishing to induce lactation is very similar to that used by women. The rest of my reply is intended to answer your points as raised.
(LLL Trustee)
___
Dear (LLL Trustee)
I am surprised to hear this. Would you therefor support a ‘Cis” man to breastfeed and provide the nutrients for a newborn baby?
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Not had an answer

jj are you seriously comparing the breastmilk produced by a lactating mother and milk that could be produced by chemically inducing lactation in a transwoman? Why would a transwoman want or need to breastfeed a baby?

Why would a transwoman want or need to breastfeed a baby?

Maybe jj has seen a study they can link us to where the nutritional value has been compared particularly in the first few weeks. You know, when the mother’s hormones (yes that the infant has been exposed to inutero) changes the composition of the milk being delivered to the infant.

I’d like to see this data and I am sure many would. Have you seen any of that data jj?

And does this apply to any women on medication, or just trans women?

You do know that boots wouldn't even sell me olbas oil (that stuff you put on a hanky to clear your nose) when I was breastfeeding? Women who are breastfeeding are already hugely policed.

jj, pregnant women are constantly policed over what they put into their bodies. The fact that you don't know this despite endless time spent on this board suggests that you are not terribly interested in women's actual experiences and are here just to lecture, troll and gaslight.

Maybe jj has seen a study they can link us to where the nutritional value has been compared particularly in the first few weeks

A study which would also include the affects on the mother emotionally at sharing the experience that way.

Its got to be completely different to sharing bottle feeds with a partner.

Well, quite Scully

And maybe this derail is a good example of what happens on bf’ing threads supporting women in need of bf’ing help......

You're right, @Winesalot.

It is really depressing that a breastfeeding charity isn't prioritising breastfeeding. There's so much guilt and shame around women who have a difficult time of it, and so much policing and judgement. It is a particular female experience and it is not up for grabs.

@HecatesCats

jj are you seriously comparing the breastmilk produced by a lactating mother and milk that could be produced by chemically inducing lactation in a transwoman? Why would a transwoman want or need to breastfeed a baby?

For the same reason any other woman would. I would be interested in seeing research but I don't see any reason why it would be substantially different. Trans women's breasts are anatomically pretty much identical to other women's breasts and have pretty much the same hormone levels.

@Winesalot

And maybe this derail is a good example of what happens on bf’ing threads supporting women in need of bf’ing help......

Isn’t it just, and zero concern for the welfare of the breast feeding baby mentioned by the derailer

@Winesalot

And maybe this derail is a good example of what happens on bf’ing threads supporting women in need of bf’ing help......

This isn't a support thread, its a thread complaining that an organisation supports trans women. Like 90% of the other threads on here. And how on earth is it a derail to discuss whether trans women can safely breast feed on a thread about trans women breastfeeding.

@Winesalot

And maybe this derail is a good example of what happens on bf’ing threads supporting women in need of bf’ing help......

Isn’t it just.

Here are two pictures. They’re very informative.

Bearing in mind that key to the mission of LLL is the 'healthy development of baby and mother', how does transwomen breastfeeding fit in? Why would a transwoman want to breastfeed jj?

For the same reason any other woman would. I would be interested in seeing research but I don't see any reason why it would be substantially different. Trans women's breasts are anatomically pretty much identical to other women's breasts and have pretty much the same hormone levels.

Again, a mother’s body regulates the hormones that are inadvertently supplied to the infant, from conception through to breast feeding. If you don’t know this, why make such a comment.

And in a deleted recent thread, I saw a paper that was shoddily evidenced study on one male who was induced to lactate. They still had high testosterone levels as well as the other drugs. Maybe the person who posted that link will do so again.

Testosterone at a male level? To a baby girl? Mmmmm! Obviously you are under the impression all transwomen have little or no testosterone. Have you not read any posts on these boards since you have been posting?

For the same reason any other woman would. I would be interested in seeing research but I don't see any reason why it would be substantially different

Presumably they had the baby with a woman..one that will produce her own milk without medications.

Trans women's breasts are anatomically pretty much identical to other women's breasts and have pretty much the same hormone levels

Only if you view them as something for others to gawp at or fill a bikini top. Not if you see them as a part of the body with an actual function

And how on earth is it a derail to discuss whether trans women can safely breast feed on a thread about trans women breastfeeding.

It becomes a derail based on the whataboutery nature of your posts. And the seemingly lack of experience and knowledge about the subject.

And this thread ALSO discusses any MALE inclusion in a breastfeeding support group where women wish to only have other women. Particularly during covid when They are posting pictures of there nipples and breasts.

I’d like to hear from a female who has no problem exposing themselves online knowing it is not a secure group.

Trans women's breasts are anatomically pretty much identical to other women's breasts and have pretty much the same hormone levels.

Now we all know that just ain't true.

Believe it if you like - just don't go anywhere near a hungry infant...or a breastmilk bank.

I can understand supporting a trans man who has given birth to chest feed. However I wish someone would just quietly point out, they are in fact still biologically women. However if someone is in a very ideologically confused state, it isn't going to help to insist they admit this, rather than just encourage them to feel good about chestfeeding, nurture baby, form strong bond. 'My Pregnant Husband"made me see why support to transmen from places like LL might be important , despite saccharine nonsense of it all. The mum was to all intents a breastfeeding mum, even if she thought she was a man. Why should baby miss out.

But transwomen breastfeeding I think is absolutely insane, like someone having fake periods or suchlike...formula is there to nurture why fetishi ize feeding process? Just, no.

I’d like to hear from a female who has no problem exposing themselves online knowing it is not a secure group.

Oh. And I am more interested in people who don’t then victim blame the women who feel they have so little options but to post these pictures. In the past we have had a few who blamed women for posting their pictures in these groups. Like the women had any other option.....

Men can nurture and care for babies in so many ways, they can form incredibly strong bonds, why on earth is it necessary to hijack breastfeeding, when so many mums don't even DO it, and still adore and cherish their babies. It doesn't make them lesser mums not to bstfd.
It is so selfish to say I need to breastfeed, when so many natal women get so little support to do it.

jj1968 I notice that you often use 'transwomen and other women' in your posts. I am sure this is deliberate in a kind of forced teaming way. Personally, I think it is more correct to say 'transwomen and women'.

Your reply of 'For the same reason any other woman would.' in response to 'Why would a transwoman want or need to breastfeed a baby' is a case in point. If you read it from a biological sex point of view as ' For the same reason any other male would' it puts a totally different slant on the reply.

Transwomen are biologically male. Transwomen are not a subset of women.

@UppityPuppity

Trans women's breasts are anatomically pretty much identical to other women's breasts and have pretty much the same hormone levels.

Now we all know that just ain't true.

Believe it if you like - just don't go anywhere near a hungry infant...or a breastmilk bank.

"The histologic effect of high levels of estrogen utilized for transition from male to female, unlike gynecomastia, includes development of ducts, lobules and acini histologically identical to cisgender women. Pseudolactational changes have also been described [16]. Figure 2 shows an example of lobule formation and pseudolactational changes in the breast biopsy from a transgender woman. We have also observed lobular development similar to a pre-pubertal breast in the setting of estrogen treatment of transgender females"

link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s40134-018-0260-1

Testosterone at a male level? To a baby girl? Mmmmm! Obviously you are under the impression all transwomen have little or no testosterone. Have you not read any posts on these boards since you have been posting?

Trans women who have been on t blockers long enough or who are post surgery/orchidectomy are likely to have very low testorerone levels, usually around the same as other women and none at all in some cases.

So many people claim to be experts on trans issues and yet appear to know so little.

Once again we seem to come back to how pseudo-activists think the differences between male and female bodies don't really exist, it's all societal invention, but somehow always know which group of people to patronise, insult and gaslight. (Hint: it's the same group of people who are actually at risk of violence in the world.)

"The histologic effect of high levels of estrogen utilized for transition from male to female, unlike gynecomastia, includes development of ducts, lobules and acini histologically identical to cisgender women. Pseudolactational changes have also been described [16]. Figure 2 shows an example of lobule formation and pseudolactational changes in the breast biopsy from a transgender woman. We have also observed lobular development similar to a pre-pubertal breast in the setting of estrogen treatment of transgender females"

Females with pre pubertal breast can't successfully feed infant babies either.

If as this study suggests 13 years on hormones only produce minor changes in breast composition then adult males will also not be able to sufficiently feed an infant.