La Leche League will support males (of the male sex) who wish to breastfeed.

[ExLLLeader]

I picked this up on a recent Facebook post and could not quite believe it so made the following complaint/query and it is true. I was a La Leche League Leader for many years and am very upset to see how the organisation has lost its focus on the Mother and baby.

Complaint To The Board of Directors/Trustees

Dear Board members,

I was alarmed to see a post yesterday on the LLLGB Facebook page. The post in celebrating Transgender awareness week. The post links to the this page which states

LLLGB supports everyone who wants to breastfeed or chestfeed in reaching their goals. We do not discriminate based on sex, gender or gender identity.

And
Trans men, trans women and non-binary individuals may choose to breastfeed or chestfeed their babies.

And
Trans women can use a protocol similar to adoptive and other non-gestational mothers and stimulate their milk supply: it is called the Newman-Goldfarb protocol.

I have two issues I wish to complain about and they relate to the idea that males/Transwomen can breastfeed.

LLLGB should not be promoting the idea that males can induce lactation to feed a baby. There is no evidence to say this is safe, only an anecdotal example of a case where a doctor in the US enabled this to happen using off label drugs. The focus of the paper is mainly on the desires of the male bodied person and there is little interest in the impact on the baby and indeed the mother. www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5779241/ . I would hope you have also considered the fetishisation of breastfeeding which does not only apply to men watching women, males lactating is also a paraphilia.

Why would LLLGB of all organisations choose not to discriminate on the basis of sex as it is perfectly entitled to under the equalities act? By saying these two statements there is nothing to stop a male wishing to come to women only meetings. Even I presume, before the baby is born. Im not sure if you would require that the male considered themselves to be a woman by performing gender stereotypes or not. (The male in the study had no surgery so still had a functioning penis.) Does this entitle a male who has breastfed to apply for Leadership?

Yours Sincerely
(ExLLLeader)

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Dear (ExLLLeader)
Thank you for taking the time to contact us with your concerns.
Your first concern is that there may be safety concerns relating to inducing lactation via drugs. The protocol used by Trans men is very similar to that used by women wishing to induce lactation. This treatment has an established treatment history. As lay breastfeeding counsellors, LLL Leaders role is to provide up to date and accurate information which individuals can use to inform their discussion with their healthcare provider.
Our groups have discretion to consider the needs of their communities when they decide who can attend. Some will by default be women only, however our support is and must always be open to anyone who needs support and information to breastfeed (which some individuals call chestfeeding). This would mean that a group would need to find a way to balance the needs of members who needed a single sex space, with the needs of an individual who needed chestfeeding support.
Eligibility for La Leche League Leadership is set by LLL International and can be found here: www.llli.org/get-involved/prerequisites/
As an organisation with a robust safeguarding culture, if we had concerns about an individual's motivation for seeking breastfeeding support we would take appropriate action to protect families and babies.
Best wishes (LLL Trustee)
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Dear (LLL Trustee)
Thank you for your reply, I have copied my complaint below as I was raising concerns about the male sex – i.e. Transwomen and breastfeeding and you have answered as if my concern is about female sexed i.e. trans men.

Best wishes (ExLLLeader)
_
Dear (ExLLLeader)
My apologies - I used the wrong word there. I should have said the protocol used by transwomen wishing to induce lactation is very similar to that used by women. The rest of my reply is intended to answer your points as raised.
(LLL Trustee)
___
Dear (LLL Trustee)
I am surprised to hear this. Would you therefor support a ‘Cis” man to breastfeed and provide the nutrients for a newborn baby?
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Not had an answer

*their

I've been reading more about it Massive, did you experience any side effects? I imagine you took it once you realised you were struggling rather than taking it during pregnancy, or did you plan to take it due to adoption? Can I ask how long you took it for and what your doctor advised? I'm just interested in your experience.

So far I can't find any science about a man taking it in order to breastfeed a baby.

@OhHolyJesus

No side effects so far.

Ifaik the main concern about it is the possible effect on the heart of the mother - I think there has been one case whereby an older person with a history of arrythmia was taking it and died (they weren't taking it for lactation but for digestive issues, so a much higher dose, and they were much older than a new mother would be). Very little passes through to the milk and there is no suggestion that it causes harm to the baby.

I'm still taking it and my supply is coming up, but very slowly. I understand it can cause quite a miraculous increase in supply for some people though.

I don't know anything about its use for men or transgender women but I'm getting quite pissed off at all this frothing about what is a fairly common drug because "omg, hormones in breast milk!". There are loads of drugs which are prescribed to breastfeeding mums.. I'm also taking thyroid hormones but no one bats an eye about that.

(I am very tempted to go off on a tangent about how much I dislike LLL for other reasons but will save that for another thread )

Massive my main concern here is LLL purporting to have a mission centring successful breastfeeding as key to the health and well-being of babies and mothers while meanwhile introducing a policy that runs counter to that. Allowing transwomen to breastfeed wouldn't be the best for baby and mother in any circumstance. It also raises serious safeguarding red flags. That's also why it's important to define who the mother is and to hold LLL to their purpose as a charity. They raise funds based upon their mission.

@HecatesCats yes, I get that. It's just the hoo-ha about the specific drug that is annoying me.

I’d be less worried about that specific drug, and more worried about the myriad of other drugs and hormones that transgender individuals take.
I’m by no means an expert on what medication is commonly used, but surely CSH would filter through?

I don't know anything about its use for men or transgender women but I'm getting quite pissed off at all this frothing about what is a fairly common drug because "omg, hormones in breast milk!". There are loads of drugs which are prescribed to breastfeeding mums.. I'm also taking thyroid hormones but no one bats an eye about that

Thyroid hormones ( I assume you mean thyroxine ) is to replace what your body would make naturally. The same as insulin for type one diabetics.

It’s not the same as cross sex hormones.

And most BF women have been told that they can’t take very common drugs , such as pain killers or antihistamines.

Many women spend years of their lives being pregnant or breast feeding and often suffer significant distress / discomfort / health problems because they can’t take certain drugs. It’s a common reason for women stopping BF, which of course has risks for them and their baby.

This isn’t a weird theoretical risk - it’s a big issue for many women.

Frothing? Prove it’s safe. Don’t bully, abuse and throw out of the groups women who query.

Prove it is beneficial for the baby.

I don't know anything about its use for men or transgender women but I'm getting quite pissed off at all this frothing about what is a fairly common drug because "omg, hormones in breast milk!". There are loads of drugs which are prescribed to breastfeeding mums.. I'm also taking thyroid hormones but no one bats an eye about that

Is it not more to do with the other hormones that male-bodied people are taking or producing when they breastfeed a baby? Their bodies are not the same as women's. They produce higher levels of testosterone naturally. They have to take cross-sex hormones. There is a risk that this stuff will all get passed onto the baby through the breast milk and I fail to see how taking that risk is in the baby's best interests.

I have never breastfed myself but IME women who are breastfeeding are very, very careful about what they put in their bodies. My friends have been so careful about alcohol, caffeine and painkillers while breastfeeding that I've internally rolled my eyes.

I find it very interesting that male-bodied people who choose to breastfeed do not seem to have any concern about the impact of their medication on the baby. It is almost as if they don't think in the same way as a typical breastfeeding mother.

Bizarre to read well put forward arguments dismissed as "frothing". Oh wait, no it's not. It's the same misogynist attitude that has been always used to silence women with enough knowledge & experience to question patriarchal authority.

It is possible to disagree without resorting to this.

Has as much effort been out into helping mums who have problems breastfeeding as this? Are women told to leave groups if they question why a mum is taking medication to encourage lactation?

A breastfeeding mum won’t take an aspirin without checking. Will check hair dye or cleaning products. Will panick when they slip a bloody disk and have topical pain killer then worry about if it will get into their milk...

The link on the LLLGB page about trans chestfeeding or whatever they call it goes to some US-based advice about domperidone that only talks about breastfeeding in women, it specifically says mothers.

It says that this drug doesn't cross the blood-brain barrier and would only go to the baby in very small amounts so it is deemed safe. There wasn't nothing from the NHS as far as I could see but it was just a quick check but it appears to be broadly considered as safe. In women.

I recently saw a study about corona virus in semen, and that it was only in small amounts (one imagines the breathing in close proximity and kissing before and during the sex would do spread it anyway but maybe I'm the old fashioned vanilla type). Small amounts are like a get-out clause and forgive me if I'm not so trusting of doctors since they claimed that puberty blockers are reversible and the MMR vaccines will make your kid autistic.

Anyway, I digress...my point is do we know it only goes to the baby in small amounts? If so has that been proven to be the case in men as well as women? There are many differences between men and women as we know, maybe this is one of them. Has someone, anyone, tested a baby who has been consistently fed on this fluid (if so how and what are the ethics around that?) and has proof that it is safe for a baby to be fed this bodily fluid from a man on these drugs? Are there any children who were fed this fluid from their fathers who are now in their teens who show no ill-effects or has no one tracked them? Is it too early to tell and therefore the LLLGB shouldn't be advising on stuff they don't know about yet?

I see no danger in being sceptical but there is danger in trusting 'experts' who don't have any actual evidence.

Why risk it? The baby is the most important person here. If you can’t guarantee it, don’t do it.

www.breastfeedingnetwork.org.uk/domperidone/

Extremely reliable site used by many UK HCP.

@ThatIsNotMyUsername

Frothing? Prove it’s safe. Don’t bully, abuse and throw out of the groups women who query.

I you think that I am bullying you please report my post.

Also please read the link provided by ALLIS0N as to why the drug is sometimes recommend.

Wasn’t implying you were (sorry) just a general comment on the way some people do though.

I had struggles breast feeding and no support from these groups. Just guilt ladled on me when I was at my most vulnerable.
And they are offering support to men who get off on it.

That's a very useful link Allison thank you for sharing.

Many drugs or even supplements say "not for bf" simply as there's no research on it to prove either way.

As Allison says, bfn are great. LLL frequently refer to them. There's also Lact med and Hales, specialist bf pharmacy sources. Some drugs are not recommended as they can interfere with supply, eg decongestants.

Kellymom is another excellent website.

Unfortunately it would actually require many bfing TW to be tested in a study for the data to be collected. Which wouldn't be a particularly good thing either.

I'm sorry so many did not get understanding flexible support from peer supporters. It's not my experience at all with either the LLL or other peer groups.

Before that particular drug is used, an expert bf supporter would probably suggest power pumping for a few days, which in post partum women is very effective. You have to be careful as it can then go the other way and you can have oversupply so it would be under direction.

Babies stimulate supply by falling asleep on the breast and dry suckling, with the fluttering movements of the tongue. Lots of baby books advocate removing the baby at this point etc as part of (really unnecessary) "sleep training" without realising the biological impact on supply.

Power pumping is where you pump but carry on for a little while afterwards with no milk coming out. It works in a similar way.

Bf is so bloody complex as it's such an enormously biological process, and every baby and mother are different. (Hence why it's very to deny biology in this)

Power over their babies?

There speaks someone who had never breastfed a baby

And as for men breastfeeding. Ffs what sort of weirdness is that.

Just no that’s all LLL had to say

Check out this "Open Letter to La Leche League Leaders" on a new website.
mothersformother.com

My daughter, new mother, tried to donate some excess breast milk and was told that because she had her frozen milk in the same freezer as food they couldn't accept it!!!

This situation is beyond ridiculous and we'll be waiting for babies to get ill before anything is done to stop it. We need to stop this NOW

First do no harm.

How does a baby sucking on a man’s chest not getting any milk, or if they somehow produce milk due to taking drugs, drinking that without knowing the effects, at all
Good for that baby?

This is about validating men as it seems everything we do in society is more and more so daily. It’s sick is what it is.