Joe Wicks and his breastfeeding journey

[IHaveAGreyLamp]

Joe Wicks has written in his ‘Wean to 15’ weaning and cookery book about how his wife breastfed their first child. He refers to it as ‘his’ journey- ‘This is just me sharing my experience and journey’. Sorry Joe but what exactly was your breastfeeding journey?

He goes to on preach about how you should just do what’s right for you and your baby, and ignore the opinions of anyone else. Sage advice but I think I would have felt better if it had actually come from his wife (you know, the person of actual experience of breastfeeding and what it’s really like?)

There’s also a lot of ‘we did this’ and ‘we did that’, for example his wife both pumped and breastfed but ‘we found this quite challenging’. Yes Joe I’m sure you did find it quite challenging considering you were neither breastfeeding nor pumping.

I have to say I’ve found myself filled with an irrational rage reading this section of the book. Why couldn’t he have let his wife write this section, to talk about it from a breastfeeding mother’s point of view, rather than a man trying to claim something so inherently biologically female as his? Argh!

Luckily I had only been lent the book to have a look through- I would have been even more annoyed if I’d actually paid £8 to line the pockets of this smug and annoying individual!

It does seem a bit like he's claiming work that wasn't his.

OTOH, I'm glad to see men becoming part of the work of raising children. I'd rather a bit of involvement than men standing outside the room while the woman gives birth/ men dashing off to work and avoiding all but the goodnight kiss - this is NOT a judgement on anyone's experience, I'm talking about the structural edifices that make the habitual, usual default set up of mother as virtually the lone carer and father as this distant, absent figure very hard to break out of.

So, go on, Joe Wicks, well done. Like to hear more about how he found latching.

"Breastfeeding journey" is annoying, whoever says it. I picture myself on an old-fashioned steam train, leaning out the window with the baby on my tit, hair streaming in the breeze.

I don't have a son, but sure, I hope if I ever do I'll educate him as best I can.

I was more thinking about antenatal classes, where typically, everyone involved is getting 'educated' about having a baby.

I don't think there's very good advice out there for men. I absolutely think men ought to be seeking out what there is and being proactive.

Take an example - it's just my experience, so may be really unrepresentative - we did several weeks of NCT classes including a special in-depth session on breastfeeding. We covered lots of things. And when DD was about a month old, and my DP was absolutely shattered to the bones, on night instead of waking her up after two hours' sleep to feed the baby, I let her sleep through for a few hours and gave DD a bottle (she was mix-fed anyway).

No one told me that meant DP would wake up really hurting. I just didn't realise. And I didn't know that it's a risk for mastitis (which, fortunately, DP never got).

We did have someone tell us about 90 million times that breastfeeding women get really thirsty so it's a good idea to make them a cuppa when they wake up to feed. And that was helpful advice. But, before we were told that, none of the men in my group knew breastfeeding dehydrates you. And I only knew because of MN.

This is the sort of stuff I mean. It's not rocket science at all, but it's what people need to know to look after a breastfeeding partner. OTOH, I actually didn't need to know how to latch a baby on. It's not helpful advice for me. And yet, talking to a lot of dads, that's one of the major things they got told about in antenatal class.

@Hardbackwriter - YY, we were the same. We were absolutely adamant we'd be totally equal and it'd all be a walk in the park. And the biology hit both of us like a ton of bricks.

I agree it's a language issue, not about whether or not dads should be involved.

I'll be happy to talk about "our breastfeeding journey" when all SAHMS talk about "our path to promotion" and are allowed to go around saying "we got promoted today! The journey to CEO was really challenging - let me tell you how to do it."

I'd be surprised if he wrote any of the book, tbh. They probably just used the Joe Wicks name to sell it.

Agree on language.

What's with the resounding silence / lack of men discussing their "fatherhood journey" ? Stop taking womens language and appropriating womens experiences. Even something like "I really struggled with supporting my wife through her breastfeeding journey" would be preferable to appropriating it.

Make your own language to describe your own experiences please, men.

The stark fact is, he (and his publisher) thought it would be a very good moneymaker, especially if it’s going to hit the shelves before Christmas.

So many ‘celeb’ witterings come out just in time for people to think, ‘Oh, I haven’t a clue what to get for so-and-so - this might do.’

SarahAndQuack
I don't think it's patronising to say that dads have a breastfeeding journey any more than a mum having one. I find everything being described as a 'journey' to be a bit twee.I'd say DH's feeding experience is a valid experience that is different to mine and some of it is 'our experience'.

What I dislike is the adoration that's liberally thrown at Joe Wicks for doing nothing that remarkable, but if it starts the discussion about dad involvement then something good can come from it.

Laiste I hope my son sees his dad being hands on in the house and a hands on father so grows up seeing that men being supportive is the norm. DH gets annoyed at the patronising 'aww isn't daddy good for babysitting' mentality because he grew up with a hands on dad who did his fair share so it was normal for him.
It's a tricky one because women are not responsible for men's behaviour, but I can't help but think our actions and what we tolerate sends a message to our children.

“I'm not sold on Joe Wicks. Just like I'm not sold on Justin Trudeau.“

I can’t look at Trudeau the same way after he seeing he wore black face on, what, three separate occasions? I think he’s just weird - more likely a massive faker than the image of so enlightened and compassionate 21st century male he tries to convey.

He just creeps me out now.

@ImaSababa

The words 'Breast Feeding Journey' for me is the written version of the daft photos which were in many of the baby rearing books of a few years ago:

A slim and beautiful woman, clad in long pristine white nightie, seated in a chair by an open window. The white net curtain is billowing gently inwards and we can see a garden. The sun streams through the curtain and the light bounces off her beautiful clean hair while she smiles serenely down at a baby peacefully breast feeding (also wearing perfect white of course).

The reality? Well - you can have fun changing the details yourself

@LolaSmiles Amen!

@lolasmiles, I think we're basically on the same page? I don't think it's the fact of acknowledging men get involved that's patronising (at all!). It's the wrapping it up in language about 'aww isn't daddy good', and it's the insistence that, if you dislike that language, it must be because you don't want men involved at all.

I can’t say how much I dislike this sort of post from you OP. All I know is that when I tried endlessly to breastfeed and it hurt so much but I refused to give up but also refused to bottle feed, that it was every bit as much of a “journey” for my son’s OTHER parent as it was for me. He was beside himself with love for the baby and desperate to get it right but had the added nightmare of watching me disintegrate too. Why does it have to be a competition about who it’s hardest for? It’s comments and judgments like many on here that make many committed loving fathers feel like whatever they do they can’t get it right. Rant over (and I do know that lots and lots of women go through all of this stuff without a loving and committed other parent).

# A slim and beautiful woman, clad in long pristine white nightie, seated in a chair by an open window. The white net curtain is billowing gently inwards and we can see a garden. The sun streams through the curtain and the light bounces off her beautiful clean hair while she smiles serenely down at a baby peacefully breast feeding (also wearing perfect white of course).

The reality? Well - you can have fun changing the details yourself

They never do the breastfeeding a toddler photo in that style do they. In fact I dont think any guide shows a serene mum lovingly nursing a calm toder without a hint of acrobatics or nipple twiddling

My husband told my obstetrician about "our breastfeeding journey" to which she corrected him very quickly and frankly "I think you mean kidscreatemess's journey"

That was him told and I've never let him forget it either.

SarahAndQuack
I see what you mean. Yes, the isn't daddy good language is nauseating.

Unfortunately I suspect that to normalise hands on fatherhood, we might have to endure a bit of that. If seeing someone like Joe Wicks gets more dads being more proactive then it's a step in the right direction IMO.

See, I'm such a cynic. I just think we've had decades of men being 'hands on dad' in visible roles (and getting masses of kudos for it). And it doesn't seem to have changed very much at all.

My husband has had a wonderful breastfeeding journey...

Sleeping through the night.
Watching whatever boring programme he wants on tv while I do every bedtime.

until we stop treating fathers as if they were rather dim Labradors we need to train up to be slightly more than useless, we're never going to get equality

I well remember DD's father trying to play the dim Labrador. Full on puppy eyes and everything. He got short shrift, and pulled his finger out when it was pointed out that we were both in exactly the same place on both the 'not having a clue' scale and the 'access to parenting education' scale.

Why they think we're born with the holy grail of childrearing manuals pre-installed in our brains is beyond me.

Joe Wicks can have a breastfeeding journey if he likes, but it's a secondary one, not a primary one (unless he's actually lactating).

And I still haven't forgiven him for the squats.

I think it's ok to talk about his breastfeeding journey as a man, i.e. focusing on how he supported his wife, what worked, what didn't work, his expectations for how he would support her and how he dealt with the reality of it.

However I'd be ragey if he was directly talking about what SHE did and talked about it like it was his journey.

It smacks of me. me. me doesn't it? I'm the first parent in the world, etc, etc.

DH actions on becoming a father for the first time (it wasn't my first time) was something which bonded us together even more strongly.

He was attentive and supportive and tried to be pro active and use his initiative but just asked me what i wanted/needed if he wasn't sure at the time. I mean it's what decent normal humans do for each other isn't it?

If your partner is bleeding and knackered and sore and stuck in a chair feeding a tiny baby then you simply do .... all the things that need doing. Make sure they're fed and watered and then get on with what ever passes for normal service in your house. Do the washing, do the hoovering, get the shopping in, keep the kitchen clean, keep the loo clean and look after any older kids. Do the nappies, do a bit of burping. Creep about when the baby is asleep. Is this really rocket science? Do the courtesy of looking as if you are trying to be awake at some point during the night feed to offer a cupper, and a few words of moral support. Get up and get said cupper without complaining if it's accepted. Get up and help clean up the projectile vomit.

DH is NO domestic goddess but knows what clean house looks like and he was fab because he wanted me to not stress. His mother was gob smacked by the way. I like the woman but i've never understood how/why that was. Did she think he was some neanderthal? That's a whole 'nother thread i guess.

I get that it's a bit cringe, I find any discussion of "my journey" a bit cringe. But is he talking just about bf or feeding/weaning more generally?

My LO has been combi fed and had formula at the start whilst establishing bf. She lost weight, concerns re jaundice, not enough dirty nappies, saw feeding specialists, hired pumps, lots of sterilising, setting alarms to give bottles, debating how much formula to top up etc, lots of long sleepleaa nights. My DH was 50/50 in all that and a my biggest cheerleader with bf. I'd cringe if he talked about "his journey" but I have to accept he has his own experiences of how we fed her in the first few weeks and wasn't just a bystander.